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Russian gas flows to Europe

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Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you count New York Times as mainstream then plenty of times. For example https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/16/pentagon-pay... https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/middleeast/11casual... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/16/magazine/unco... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/18/us/airstrikes... Although I agree there was no real punishment, after all the US isn't going to charge th…

NY times is behind a paywall for me, but even the first story mentions a "mistake"... somehow when americans kill someone, it's "a mistake". The other stories are from (judging by the URLs) from 2006, 2017 and 2021... so yeah... considering america is still in quite a few countries now, and noone cares. > because it would disincentivise them from doing their work You mean "making mistakes" and killing civilians? Why…

I used though links because those were the first ones that came up when I searched. If you want another here is one from Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/coalition...

I must question how hard you are looking because none of these links have shown paywalls to me, and even if they did you could use reader view (depends on browser) or various archive services to see what was written. If you want articles from specific date periods you can use Google search date parameters.

> You mean "making mistakes" and killing civilians?

No, from doing any sort of military activity. If you wanted to 100% verify there is no potential civilian nearby any military activity would immediately grind to a halt. You'll find for similar reasons why few Nazi German soldiers were ever punished for killing civilians, because even the Allies understood is it something almost impossible to accuse your enemy of without it also applying to your own soldiers, thus most trials focused on purposeful targeting of civilians, which is something different.

> Why can't EU impose sanctions on US?

EU has put sanctions on the US for various things over the years.

> Like kick them out of the EU teritory as a start?

Because it would mean they actually have to pay for their own defense which none of them are particularly keen on doing.

> US kills a reuters journalist...

If you watch the actual video it's pretty clear the men the journalists are with are carrying weapons, if I remember correctly an RPG. Militarily speaking they were entirely a legitimate target and I personally never understood the controversy about it, perhaps because they worked for a western news organization it became famous. If you wanted to pick an example of them killing civilians who weren't hanging around with militants there are many better ones.

> similar reasons to what putin is doing now

There was no genocide of Russian speakers in Ukraine so that's nonsense.

> The only ones having any benefit out of this current crisis are the american politicians.

This is also obvious nonsense. How are high gas prices and high inflation rates beneficial to American politicians? The Russian economy is doing (for now at least) far better than the American or EU ones.

If you look at what was actually given, half of it is given under lend-lease, which as the name suggests, is a lease, they're not actually buying anything that they have to pay back. The US is buying them from whatever companies and then lending them out to Ukraine. If you read the law passed for it, the US expects no compensation for any loss of military equipment given to Ukraine, only that whatever is left is returned when the war finished. Instead of spouting conspiracy nonsense you should actually go and learn up on what you criticize because it's very common that people talk all this stuff about things they don't understand at all. I do agree though that China and India are big beneficiaries from this being able to buy things from Russia at big discounts though.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#183
post #179
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh...are we still talking about Germany? Because in Germany they clearly weren't, unlike in case of France. And Norway's absolutely prodigious consumption of electricity (quadruple amount per capita) even underlines it: electrical heating is absolutely not the way to go forward -- efficient building codes are.

They weren't because of Germany's energy policy, not because nuclear is a bad fit for residential heating. We're talking about "[nuclear on] the timespan of several decades".

Germany has neither a nuclear military-industrial complex like the French do nor the opportunity to waste copious amounts of energy the way Norwegians do, so I fail to see how references to those countries are in any way relevant for Germans' situation. No amount of energy policy will compensate for their different circumstances to the extent of turning Germany into a second France or a second Norway.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#184
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. we believed our leaders would have the sense to settle with Russia instead of destroying our country. What settlement could Ukraine have with Russia that wouldn't be the end of Ukraine? Russia is demanding that Ukraine allow part of its territory to secede and form "independent" nations, as well as have Ukraine avoid bolstering its ability to protect itself from its neighbours. Do you think those countries won't…

> What settlement could Ukraine have with Russia that wouldn't be the end of Ukraine? Any settlement would've been better than this. Every major city destroyed, 15% of the population emigrated.

Absolutely NOT.

Appeasing the bully or tyrant leads only to more of the same. From the tyrant's perspective, what they did worked (gial achieved) and the opponents indicated that they are OK with it. Thus, they should try the next step they want.

The reason this invasion happened was because there was no real push-back to the Crimea invasion.

When would you propose that we start fighting back instrad of allowing Russia ti annex ever more - when Lithuania and Poland are being bombed? Berlin & Frankfurt? Paris? London? DC?

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#185
post #183
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't because of Germany's energy policy, not because nuclear is a bad fit for residential heating. We're talking about "[nuclear on] the timespan of several decades".

Germany has neither a nuclear military-industrial complex like the French do nor the opportunity to waste copious amounts of energy the way Norwegians do, so I fail to see how references to those countries are in any way relevant for Germans' situation. No amount of energy policy will compensate for their different circumstances to the extent of turning Germany into a second France or a second Norway.

Even if you think that's insurmountable problem there's an easy solution: Pay the French to build and operate them, they already do that for other foreign customers.

But look at France's portion of nuclear at the start of the 70s, then the 90s. There's no reason except political will that Germany couldn't do the same.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#186
post #185
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has neither a nuclear military-industrial complex like the French do nor the opportunity to waste copious amounts of energy the way Norwegians do, so I fail to see how references to those countries are in any way relevant for Germans' situation. No amount of energy policy will compensate for their different circumstances to the extent of turning Germany into a second France or a second Norway.

Even if you think that's insurmountable problem there's an easy solution: Pay the French to build and operate them, they already do that for other foreign customers. But look at France's portion of nuclear at the start of the 70s, then the 90s. There's no reason except political will that Germany couldn't do the same.

Perhaps. But saying with 20/20 hindsight of the 2020s that people of the 1970s should have made momentously different decisions for the future of whole national industries for decades to come doesn't feel any less arrogant to me. And that's even assuming that the international situation decades ago was the same as one of today, which it wasn't either.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#187
post #184
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What settlement could Ukraine have with Russia that wouldn't be the end of Ukraine? Any settlement would've been better than this. Every major city destroyed, 15% of the population emigrated.

Absolutely NOT. Appeasing the bully or tyrant leads only to more of the same. From the tyrant's perspective, what they did worked (gial achieved) and the opponents indicated that they are OK with it. Thus, they should try the next step they want. The reason this invasion happened was because there was no real push-back to the Crimea invasion. When would you propose that we start fighting back instrad of allowing Russ…

Are you Ukrainian? Because your take doesn't make sense. Do you really think Russia can afford going to war with literally half of the planet? If that's the case, NATO might as well send preemptive strikes (nukes, etc..) to avoid that scenario or probably Russia could foresee that and strike first since they are currently at war.

The US was looking to buy petroleum from Venezuela. The same Venezuela they were vehemently criticizing and putting economic sanctions because of the ongoing dictatorship over there.

This war is more complex than we think. The world is already in a second cold war and now we have to blocks: the West (US and the EU) vs The East (China and Russia).

We are at "...hard times make strong men..." Cycle now.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#188
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ukraine could somehow "defeat" Russia while still avoiding WW3 Why? These kind of cold-war era proxy wars happened throughout history. One big power makes a move directly or indirectly, while the other side will be supported indirectly by other powers. It becomes a pure resource war, and no party has a reason to escalate it beyond the conflict zone. Russia has no reason to open new fronts even if NATO props the war…

This is not a proxy war. Russia is involved directly on its border. A proxy war is in a far off land.

It is a proxy war for the US. After all, Russia is not at war with Ukraine, it is at war in Ukraine, against NATO.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember you, the day before the war started, you bet me $25 that there would be no war ( https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=martythemaniak&next=... ). I'm glad you're alive and there's obviously no need to settle that bet, but despite everything you've been through, your understanding of the situation has not improved. First, the Americans warned everybody that Russia would attack on Feb 16 and they were wide…

Ukraine cannot win this war unless it turns into a war between Russia and NATO, not Russia and Ukraine, with NATO troops and weapons entering the war on Ukraine's side. This war will continue unless the Ukrainian govt decides to sue for peace and enter negotiations with Russia. This war is really about Russia telling the US and NATO to go F themselves. Putin is done with those "b**ches." The purpose of prolonging thi…

Zelensky has been ready for negotiations since day 1. The problem is that when Russia talks about "negotiations", what they seem to mean is complete surrender. Zelensky rightly rejects that, along with >80% of the Ukrainian population.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how is Europe commiting collective suicide going to defeat Russia? Must be fun looking in at all this from the sidelines.

I'm an european, and I never understood this... We sent our soldiers to every shithole america decided to "bring democracy to", but now, ukraine has become so important, that we are willing to destroy our own economy and "passively fight" until the "last dead ukranian", to achieve what exactly?

Where would you draw the line? Moldova? Baltic countries? Poland? Everyone for themselves?
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