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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#181

Post by Miraste »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #100
s1k3s wrote: post #89

I can't make up my mind if this is good or bad. On one hand, FAANG has a huge advantage over anyone else on the market, but they did build that product and they did spend their own money to do it. I'd be curious if there are any other occurrences in history of something so big ending up regulated by the government?

Microsoft is an earlier example of a company with theoretical competition but which ended up with significant intervention due to the practical walled garden they had created and where exhibiting significant monopoly powers over.

And Microsoft's garden had much, much lower walls.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#182

Post by illuminati1911 »

_the_inflator wrote: post #120
superb-owl wrote: post #5

This is huge. Forcing Apple to allow app side-loading, third-party payments, etc is going to wrest away control of the iOS ecosystem (and eat pretty heavily into their revenues [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/apple-implies-it-generated-r... I hope some of these regulations spill over into the U.S. and the rest of the world.

Never underestimate the creative genius of Apple. They will come up with new solutions to keep their walled garden. "Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet" I bet this is going to be a horrible user experience. "Are you really sure?", "Apple takes no responsibility not warranty" whatsoever. What sound usually easy on paper...

I don’t think fucking around with EU regulators is something Apple should do here. They’ll probably revenge even with stronger further regulations later.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#183

Post by arlort »

JoeNr76 wrote: post #114

The only questionable part is end-to-end encryption. I don't see how you can make your messaging apps interoperable and have E2E encryption. Most of the other things: mostly good. Apple and Google need to be taken down a peg or 10.

You can't, not in a perfectly verifiable way

At some point app A needs to know how to decrypt messages received on app B and/or vice-versa

Nicely designed apps will do so on your device, shady apps will do so on servers, as a consumer you'll have to decide which companies behave and design their apps in a way that is satisfactory to you

But you have to do that to use any app in the first place. If you're using a messaging app it means you trust its developers and how much data they collect and how they handle it. Adding a "how do they handle interoperation" checkbox does not significantly change that calculus imo

(as to how E2E can work with interoperability, with an open API app A will just ping app B's servers in addition to its own and will have its own E2E key as well as B's key. Groups could be more complicated but group encryption is a pretty hard problem anyway and you might just give up and warn your users that cross-platform groups won't be E2EE)

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#184

Post by gamblor956 »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #85

I really hope Sony and Nintendo are classified as gatekeepers as well because this > Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet. would be huge for Playstation and Switch owners.

Not really similar.

Sony, MS, and Nintendo already allow games to be purchased from other retailers, and always have. (See, for example, Game Stop, Best Buy, Target, etc.) Even digital downloads can be purchased from other retailers (i.e., Amazon).

Thus, their in-console storefronts are just one of several options that players can use to purchase games.

In contrast, the only way to get iPhone apps is through the App Store. No side-loading, third party stores, etc.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#185

Post by erk__ »

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

The near-field communication have a clear reason. Apple was only allowing access to their own banking app as a payment provider in shops. As I understand there was not even a way to get access with any kind of forms or such if you had a competing plastic card firm. That is pretty much the only reason that clause is the legislation.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#186

Post by Vespasian »

s1k3s wrote: post #89

I can't make up my mind if this is good or bad. On one hand, FAANG has a huge advantage over anyone else on the market, but they did build that product and they did spend their own money to do it. I'd be curious if there are any other occurrences in history of something so big ending up regulated by the government?

Power companies, Telco companies. Oil companies, In some countries train companies.

Sometimes this happens when services are provided by the state directly.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#187

Post by Miraste »

toyg wrote: post #173
philliphaydon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This actually opens a race to be the best mobile browser, which might well see new entrants. Hahhahahhahahahaha. We will end up with chrome. And developers targeting chrome and safari users being left out because “works best in chrome for my text based website that doesn’t do anything safari can’t do”.

That's self-defeatist. You mentioned IE downthread; IE is not the dominant browser anymore, and the reason for that is not just that MS stagnated, but that it was challenged vigorously by competitors that exploited new opportunities better. This is one such opportunity.

Chrome was better than IE, but it won out not because of technical capabilities but through Google's constant and ruthless exploitation of its web properties and operating systems. That already happens on iOS, and I'm sure a Google SVP reading this ruling just started a project to intensify it.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#188

Post by illuminati1911 »

warning26 wrote: post #159
kinnth wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If iPhones had different app stores with 15% fees, then consumers would decide. I think the real issue here is consumers are gona get hyper confused and it wont be a better experience for anyone. Every single app creator out there will now want their own "app store" and it's going to be a mess. 30% fee initially to capture that market was what our company factored in and grew exponentially with. A 15% fee is nothing…

> Every single app creator out there will now want their own "app store" and it's going to be a mess. This is such an oft-repeated argument, yet overlooks that Android already allows sideloading and alternative app stores. If everyone-creating-their-own-app-store hasn't happened on Android, why would iOS be different?

Here in China there is like 800 app stores for Android.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#189

Post by arlort »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #64
cm2187 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well not completely off, it is true that if the commission and council aren’t on board this bill will be stillborn.

Well EU law starts off life as a proposal by the Commission, so it's virtually impossible for there to be a proposal passed by Parliament and not have Commission support (unless Parliament has made significant amendments that the Commission does not like, although I'm unaware of this ever happening). Council not agreeing is definitely a potential problem, but given the level of support from the Commission and Parliam…

Council support (for the general targets/scope) is almost guaranteed before a commission proposal sees the light of day, it might get amended and / or clash with parliament amendments but the fact a proposal has been made is a good indication some form of the law will pass

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#190

Post by arlort »

cm2187 wrote: post #47
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #24

Edit: It is clear that I was an idiot with this comment and my facts are quite wrong. Removed.

EU senate? What senate? For a law to pass, you need the European parliament, the EU commission and the council, no such thing as a EU senate.

tbf Senate would be a better name for the Council of the EU, reducing by a good half the confusion when talking about "Council" in european politics
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