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New California law requires high schools to start later

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Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#181

Post by barry-cotter »

eikenberry wrote: post #167
logicalmonster wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former child, I truly understand that a lack of sleep is a problem in teens, but I think this solution is probably worse for everybody. 1) The flipside to starting much later is that kids will be exiting schools later. Want to participate in some after school activities or clubs that aren't physically in school? A HS kid wants to hold down a little part time job so she can save to buy that first car or afford th…

1) They wouldn't need to get out any later. Most of the school day is basically baby sitting and they could easily fit the actual teaching in 2) There have been bunches of studies that show teenagers don't get proper sleep specifically when they get up early. There is something about that age that requires sleeping later to get good rest. No matter when they go to bed. 3) Who says their waking coincides with the curr…

> 1) They wouldn't need to get out any later. Most of the school day is basically baby sitting and they could easily fit the actual teaching in You have reinvented the German Gymnasium (grammar school). Congratulations.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#182

Post by Salgat »

koolba wrote: post #25
feet wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the law is based around what's been observed behaviorally/biologically. Not what's good for working parents Schools shouldn't be forcing developing humans into a schedule that impairs their ability to learn and function, no matter what they want to decide

If they do enough physical and mental labor during the day and turn off their smart phones at night, they’ll have no issue going to sleep early enough. On the other hand if you do nothing mentally stimulating or physically tiring all day long, then of course you won’t be able to sleep till late.

I'd rather just stick to what studies find as best instead of anecdotes about needing to physically exhaust children to force them into the desired sleep schedule. Also there's research showing humans have varying natural times they ideally sleep at, and they suffer outside those hours.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#183

Post by giantg2 »

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #156
giantg2 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is such a contentious issue, then why not allow the parents in each district to decide? That's really what I'm getting at - the state is making this decision for everyone by usurping the parents representation at the district level.

If it is such a contentious issue, then why go through all the extra time and effort to decide it for each and every district? Parents still have a voice and vote at the state level do they not?

Because what works for one district might not work for another based on the demographics and culture of the location.

Their voice at the state level is highly diluted by non-interested parties. Voting for school board members tends to be more focused and doesn't have as many people voting based on non-school issues like you would for a general representative.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#184

Post by em-bee »

rootusrootus wrote: post #69
alistairSH wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. And it’s 100% normal for early prior year school aged kids in Japan to cross town on the subway on their own. The American obsession with helicoptering their kids all the way through their first job is super weird and unhealthy.

Could we just stop? Please? I know it's cool to talk shit about Americans constantly but it gets old. I want to expect better from HN. > The American obsession with helicoptering their kids all the way through their first job is super weird and unhealthy. My kids, along with many others, were getting themselves to & from school without my supervision starting in third grade. Earlier, even, for my son since his sister…

the fascination comes from all these stories here:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#185

Post by giantg2 »

throwaway742 wrote: post #138
giantg2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the kids really have a hard time waking up (the point t of this law), then it's possible they over sleep. Many parents might not be comfortable with their kid cooking breakfast unsupervised too. If they're in after school activities and/or have a job, then it seem unlikely that they would get into trouble anyways. Pushing the time back will make these after school activities unfeasible for many, and limit opportun…

These are high school students they are going to be living on their own soon. I think being able to feed themselves is a skill they should probably develop.

One could argue that being at school at 8am is a valuable skill they should since most jobs require that (or earlier) start time.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#186

Post by giantg2 »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #174
giantg2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think this has nothing to do with parents? You do realize that 14-17 is still a minor?

There's a reason that age is called "young adult" . Only helicopter parents can't handle the idea of a 13 year old not being okay on their own for an hour or so after they head out to work. I was riding my bike to school at 9 and I survived, kids haven't changed that much in 15 years. Obviously there are exceptions like for special needs children, but those are pretty rare.

The laws and case law say otherwise.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#187

Post by _trackno5 »

sharadov wrote: post #120

Elementary school kids have an easier schedule and tend to go to bed early. Teens in high school tend have a more intense schedule ( academics, sports, other activities). The teen body is growing more quickly and they need about 8 to 10 hrs of sleep. I know high schools that start at 7:50 am, that is criminal. Let the teens sleep in..

This argument makes no sense to me. How is it criminal to start at 7:50am? Kids can sleep early and get their 8-10 hours of sleep just the same.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#188

Post by feet »

crooked-v wrote: post #150
koolba wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they do enough physical and mental labor during the day and turn off their smart phones at night, they’ll have no issue going to sleep early enough. On the other hand if you do nothing mentally stimulating or physically tiring all day long, then of course you won’t be able to sleep till late.

Teenagers literally have different sleep rhythms than either children or adults, so in the average case staying up late is a symptom, not a cause.

ITT: people who haven't read the research decide they know what is best based on personal anecdote

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#189

Post by jghn »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #168
giantg2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ten sounds like a nightmare for working parents. Eight seems like a completely reasonable start time to me, yet this law prevents that. Schools should be able to decide for themselves based off of the parents and what works for those in the district.

While as a parent myself I agree but this is high school. Generally speaking someone who's 13 or older should be able to make their way onto a bus without an adult. When I was that age (granted this was the 90s) I had a key to the house and was trusted to let myself in when I got back. What's worse is the end of day. My kid is younger and I need to be at the bus stop at 3:50 PM every day to meet her.

I walked by myself a quarter mile to kindergarten. I walked by myself to a bus stop through the rest of my school days until myself & friends started driving. Most of those years I came home to an empty house at the end of the school day.

Not sure why this is a big deal. Kids can manage on their own.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#190

Post by Johnny555 »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #168
giantg2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ten sounds like a nightmare for working parents. Eight seems like a completely reasonable start time to me, yet this law prevents that. Schools should be able to decide for themselves based off of the parents and what works for those in the district.

While as a parent myself I agree but this is high school. Generally speaking someone who's 13 or older should be able to make their way onto a bus without an adult. When I was that age (granted this was the 90s) I had a key to the house and was trusted to let myself in when I got back. What's worse is the end of day. My kid is younger and I need to be at the bus stop at 3:50 PM every day to meet her.

I'm a bit older than you, and when I was 10 my parents had no qualms with leaving me home alone (along with my younger sister).

But this was a time when neighbors knew each other well and you could go next door for help if you needed it. (and also if you did something dumb, you could count on your mom finding out from a neighbor)

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