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Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#181

Post by lotsofpulp »

corobo wrote: post #175
lotsofpulp wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not see why it is gross. Employees have more utility if they get an abortion and less utility if they have to spend time out for parental leave. If society wants to promote parenting, then society should pass laws about parental leave. Individual businesses have no obligation to reduce their competitiveness in the marketplace.

> I do not see why it is gross It's the whole bit about forgetting people are people. If you want robots go R&D some robots > Employees have more utility if they get an abortion Yea like that

Everyone likes to say that, and then goes out and buys things from the vendor selling to them at the lowest price.

Societal benefits fall squarely on the government’s shoulders, and their shoulders alone. Admonishing and expecting businesses to not optimize within their boundary conditions is a waste of time.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#182

Post by ziddoap »

Banana699 wrote: post #179
ziddoap wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: what is the definition of 'woke' (in the context of how you're using it)? Dictionary tells me it is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". But the vast majority of time I see someone talk about 'wokeness' or 'woke culture', they use the word in a derogatory manner. So I'm guessing the 'woke' mentioned is not "being alert to injustice" (as it is a pretty reasonable stance to be alert to…

>how are you defining 'woke' and 'wokism' Tough question, it's always hard to be honest about one's definitions. I will try to formalize wokism in a way that will make it clear why I despise it to people who see nothing obviously wrong with it apriori. - It's an ideology characterized by outsized obsession with and the veneration of a few identities, chief among which are women, queers, and varying subsets of non-whi…

The relation to 'social justice warriors' (and the negative connotation attached to that phrase) makes it more clear what you were referring to, and now I can better understand your initial comment.

Thank you for laying out your thinking.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#183

Post by maratc »

andsoitis wrote: post #121
maratc wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter. The GP said, "in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position ... everyone must adhere to". Your response still assumes that universality.

They said: "Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter." Similar concept but different issue: Do you think women should have equal rights as men? Do you think that should be universal? Or do you think it is OK for some jurisdictions to declare them the property of their husbands?

> Do you think women should have equal rights as men?

What I think is irrelevant. The question why the US hasn't yet ratified the Equal Rights Amendment that would guarantee that "women have equal rights" is also irrelevant (hint: women opposed that).

The relevant question is, whether a powerful state is right to impose its values (which it, undoubtedly, holds in high esteem) on other states.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#184

Post by system16 »

So many companies are hypocritical about this and I don't know why they don't get called out on it more. My social feeds are flooded with rainbow avatars from accounts like @MercedesBenz and their unwavering support for the LGBTQ community, but a quick look at @MercedesBenzME shows no rainbows in sight.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#187

Post by hef19898 »

naniwaduni wrote: post #139
hef19898 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I think corporations have to respect the laws in all the markets they are operating in, no exceptions. If those laws are contradictory, well international corps are pretty good in using any loop holes, so they gonna figure it out. And if laws in some markets contradict basic values of a company, well, you can always not operate in said market. I'd love if companies would do that. That companies don't is a…

"circumvent" makes it sound like they're not taking the straight-line path and ignoring western democratic values and getting away with it

They are doing both, aren't they?

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#188

Post by maratc »

Spivak wrote: post #127
maratc wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter. The GP said, "in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position ... everyone must adhere to". Your response still assumes that universality.

If the standard you're going to hold the parent to would include "assume as a premise that it's totally fine that a country decides to commit genocide and there's no possible justification for why that's bad outside cultural norms" then what's even the point? Do you want an economic argument or something? I mean the argument is “homosexuality and being trans are real observable phenomena in the human species across h…

People who bring the "genocide" argument to the discussion are like people who bring pepper spray to a party: they are not interested in a discussion (the others are not interested in a party).

Skipping that, Amazon is not taking part in any genocide - they agreed to "restrict LGBT search results" in accordance with the local laws (however backward these may seem to you — and me). In the US, Amazon is not selling Mein Kampf (in accordance with the local laws). In China, Amazon wouldn't sell Tiananmen square memorabilia (in accordance with the local laws). In Europe, Amazon wouldn't sell pornography (in accordance with the local laws).

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#189

Post by hypertele-Xii »

ehhthing wrote: post #177
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only people that care that {some company} is censored in China are distinctly people outside of China. That's how censorship works. The people inside the bubble don't know, by design, what information has been omitted, and therefore can't care.

You seem to have taken this quote out of context. My point is that "a less censored platform is always better", in other words "Google but censored is better than Baidu".

My counter-argument is that a complete lack of alternate platforms, although worse in the short term, might actually catalyst a long term improvement.

Just like russians are now being forced to learn to live without Ikea furniture or Intel computers, for the hopes that the complete lack of the better stuff might encourage them to think about overthrowing their oppressors.

Google with censorship is like a false hope, a kind of political PR greenwashing. The people of China use Google and think it's the same Google the rest of the world uses. It might be better to reveal the ugly truth, and say, you either get the whole truth, or no truth at all. To reveal the liars.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#190

Post by dahfizz »

JackFr wrote: post #143
31835843 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. “impose their ideology” is a disingenuous frame for this situation. They are censoring search results. As in, the customer, who Amazon makes money off by showing them what they want, is not being shown items that relate to what they searched for. T…

But Americans celebrate tolerance and diversity of ideas, that is unless you actually disagree with us.

Even the "tolerant" party of US politics preaches "intolerance of intolerance".
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