> users can switch to a competitor product like Asana, Basecamp or Monday.com with minimal cost That's just plain nonsense. I dislike using Jira as much as anyone, mainly because it's so excruciatingly slow. But there is no competing product (suite) that offers comparable functionality and provides the same long-term flexibilty. Many companies have built entire workflows (not just development related) around Jira, an…
> But there is no competing product (suite) that offers comparable functionality. Many companies have built entire workflows (not just development related) around Jira, and have huge knowledge bases in Confluence. Switching would come with a lot of effort. Exactly. Other products comes with opinionated workflow or are much easier (and simpler) to use. Once you setup Jira way you wanted (good luck with that) and able…
Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
181–190 of 515 posts
Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#182> users can switch to a competitor product like Asana, Basecamp or Monday.com with minimal cost That's just plain nonsense. I dislike using Jira as much as anyone, mainly because it's so excruciatingly slow. But there is no competing product (suite) that offers comparable functionality and provides the same long-term flexibilty. Many companies have built entire workflows (not just development related) around Jira, an…
>>But there is no competing product (suite) that offers comparable functionality. But not everyone needs 'comparable' functionality - an awful lot of people use just some features and not others - because of the awful UI and terrible user experience, these people are ripe to be picked off by a competitor (existing or future). I agree, if a mega-corp is completely in bed with JIRA, its harder to switch, but for a comp…
Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#183Netflix, has recently excited the fundamental/rationalist investor camp. The huge valuations hot tech companies enjoy must eventually be justified by a "Thiel Monopoly." That's the only way to earn the 20%-50% margins that Google/Apple/Meta can achieve. Netflix sells a cheap consumer product. One product among several similar options. Consumers are savvy, with many jumping between subscriptions for deals and variety. Content producers have market power, because multiple buyers.
In short, textbook microeconomics is afoot. That means competition, efficiency and low margins. That means "startup economics" don't apply. The market is not going to let Netflix sit on massive margins and monopoly market share. Newschool tech investors see this as an abomination. Old schoolers see it as cosmic justice.
Anyway.. those who desire market rationality love Netflix and are applying the Netflix analysis to everything.
Atlassian is a different story entirely. They actually sell software. Enterprise software, really. There are no content producers squeezing them for a bigger cut. The companies who pay them aren't price sensitive, and they are locked in enough. This is not the "microeconomic normality" monster that bit Netflix. Atlassian's business model is fine. Competition isn't the problem, and neither is consumer bargaining power.
Atlassian's problem is that they haven't done good enough. The bar, set by both tech history and the $150bn peak valuation, is that Atlassian becomes a microsoft.. at least a SalesForce, IMB or somesuch. Where's Atlassian's challenge to AWS? When is Atlassian leading the WFH revolution. How will Atlassian become the organisational nervous system of the modern knowledge firm?
It just doesn't look likely that Atlassian is going to achieve that kind of big-hairy-goal. The products have a crusty, uninspiring feel. The take over the world vibe is missing.
So... Atlassian's valuation is down. I doubt the share price will ever approach "rational." Software companies have value, and the floor is set by opportunistic M&A. If stock markets don't want TEAM @ 10X revenue or more... someone will buy them.
Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#184> users can switch to a competitor product like Asana, Basecamp or Monday.com with minimal cost That's just plain nonsense. I dislike using Jira as much as anyone, mainly because it's so excruciatingly slow. But there is no competing product (suite) that offers comparable functionality and provides the same long-term flexibilty. Many companies have built entire workflows (not just development related) around Jira, an…
Personally I much prefer GitLab with Issues + Kanban, it's super fast, lightweight but has enough features and it gets out of your way.
The problem is you can’t much go ala carte - you have to go all-in.
Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#185Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> other than the initial hassle of switching to a new system Is like saying: "people can move overseas with minimal cost (other than shitloads of migration bureaucracy, frequent flying to meet family, put their entire furniture on top of a cargo ship)
More like trying to remove an invasive cancer that has spread to all parts of your body whilst you're still needing to move around, be productive and live your life.
Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#187> users can switch to a competitor product like Asana, Basecamp or Monday.com with minimal cost That's just plain nonsense. I dislike using Jira as much as anyone, mainly because it's so excruciatingly slow. But there is no competing product (suite) that offers comparable functionality and provides the same long-term flexibilty. Many companies have built entire workflows (not just development related) around Jira, an…
> ...and have huge knowledge bases in Confluence. I like to call Confluence a knowledge cemetery - in the huge datasets you have in mind, finding the page you are looking for is more a matter of luck than anything else. And once you found it, you can never be sure if it's still up to date. > Anyway, they have 8000 employees... they can always drastically downsize and refocus, the company will be around for a while. I…
Jira - Everyone has the performance issue, to avoid it they tell them to carefully choose extensions and not randomly litter it, especially with extensions that conflict each other.
Confluence - They recommend to establish a proper structure in advance that everyone follows with templates that everyone can use(not the default ones), so that the cemetery issue doesn't happen.
That said, I haven't seen any company who's confluence wasn't a knowledge cemetery. But regardless of how much I dislike Jira, I'd still pick confluence over google docs.
Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#188Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#189So with Slack there is Mattermost and Zulip. What are the equivalents for Jira ? Is there an openish source piece of similar software ? Jira cops a lot of hate on HN, but really to paraphrase Churchill on Democracy - "Jira is the worst issue tracking software, except for all the others". The comparison on Wikipedia has so many of them : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue-tracking_s... Are any of them a…
As a programmer, I actually like Jira. It works.
Re: Atlassian is 20 years old and unprofitable
#190I thought Jira and Confluence were bad, until I started using the Facebook internal wiki and task tools...