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Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

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Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#181

Post by perlgeek »

MrThoughtful wrote: post #156

Could one make a lock that unlocks wirelessly via radio communication? I would imagine something that gets its energy from the outside, similar to wireless charging. So the key would provide the energy. It could be Bluetooth or some proprietary technology. So you hold the key next to the lock and the two devices exchange some challenge response data that proves the key holds the secret key that is allowed to open the…

Things like this have been made, but there are challenges:

* you have to prevent replay attacks, where somebody just records a session and replays the response

* lower-power devices are usually vulnerable to side-channel attacks, for example you can limit the power supply just to threshold where it starts working, and then you can infer information about the internal state and possibly key material

If you look at practical attacks against existing key fobs, you'll see that there are a lot of things that can go wrong in the field.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#182

Post by Quequau »

brokenkebab2 wrote: post #165
Grimburger wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's like the ultimate proof of how easy/hard it is to pick I would assume there's much better locksmiths on the planet than the most famous one on youtube who does it as a side job.

LPL is not a locksmith, he practices lockpicking as a sport. And evidently extremely good at it.

Not only that but he manufactures and sells lock picking equipment and consults on physical security. There's nothing part time about LPL's lock picking any more.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#183

Post by grecy »

binarymax wrote: post #18

This looks very similar to the design[0] by Stuff Made Here (and collaborative hardening [1] suggestions by Lock Picking Lawyer)…an excellent set of videos. https://youtu.be/2A2NY29iQdI https://youtu.be/Ecy1FBdCRbQ

You might want to see to Stuff Made Here's comment in this very HN Post:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31880501

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#184

Post by femto »

dvdkhlng wrote: post #170
femto wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone here can submit prior art during the patenting process. No suing or courts involved. You only have to care enough to make the submission. Interestingly, videos don't seem to count? It must be a written description? https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2206.html

> Interestingly, videos don't seem to count? It must be a written description? Wondering the same myself. Googeling for this issue turns up this power-point [1] which seems to imply on page 6 that "electronic publications, on-line databases, websites, or Internet publications" are also considered as "printed documents". But this is just a power-point so who knows which standard gets applied in practice. I get the imp…

The power point says "Public Use or On Sale" counts. That could be interesting, given that the lock was given to a member of the public, the Lock Picking Lawyer, for a public picking. A convenient case of having a lawyer when you need one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecy1FBdCRbQ

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#185

Post by mypalmike »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #132
franciscop wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Def want to see Enclave's under Lock Picking Lawyer! If you make a "unpickable lock" you'd def want to send it to LPL, that's like the ultimate proof of how easy/hard it is to pick. The fact that there's no video, with how approachable LPL is and accepts random locks in his PO box, can only be seen as a red flag. Do it in the open, like Stuff Made Here!

Didn't know HN had so many lock experts and lawyers frequenting the site. Dozens of comments have already detected an IP violation, half the thread is recommending ways the lock can be tested or people it needs to be sent to for confirmation of the unpickable claim... As someone who doesn't know anything about lockpicking, I feel like part of a weird minority here. What do I know but I'd assumed one would take it to…

> Didn't know HN had so many lock experts and lawyers frequenting the site.

Now you do? They're are definitely lawyers who frequent this site. And lockpicking is a common interest of computer security experts

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#186

Post by Omin »

swighton wrote: post #44

Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements). https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4 One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.

What is the drawing software used at e.g. 3:50 in the video? https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4?t=230

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#187

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #114
nemo1618 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've had theoretically-unbreakable cryptography for a long time now, particularly hash functions and encryption ciphers. There are still some weaknesses around timing attacks, and of course there's always the "wrench attack," but the algorithms themselves are as secure as we will ever need anything to be.

Outside of OTP no encryption is “theoretically unbreakable”. They all rely on unproven assumptions.

I'd go so far as to say that outside OTP, cryptography is always breakable.

You can always just guess keys. The aim of most secret key cryptography is to make sure there aren't much better strategies than that to break it, or if there are that the key sizes are sufficiently big it doesn't matter.

With OTP you can't guess keys, as there is a valid key for any possible message. It is unbreakable without the original key.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#188

Post by mgdlbp »

timhh wrote: post #151
asojfdowgh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the standard procedure for "unpickable" locks before SMH's lock too.

Yeah same idea behind my lock too: https://youtu.be/7hUonUE1hEY I'd guess many many people have had this same idea.

According to the video's pinned comment thread, that lock was sent to LockPickingLayer a few months ago, who never responded. I suppose, from my cousin comment, that it's with the other locks LPL can't pick yet.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#189

Post by loganc2342 »

swighton wrote: post #44

Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements). https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4 One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.

I’d say you’ve certainly succeeded in your goal to be an inspiration. Nothing makes me want to build something awesome more than watching your videos!

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#190

Post by Youden »

Omin wrote: post #186
swighton wrote: post #44

Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements). https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4 One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.

What is the drawing software used at e.g. 3:50 in the video? https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4?t=230

Concepts: https://concepts.app/en/
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