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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#181

Post by randrews »

k2052 wrote: post #133

This is a tip for everyone struggling to find someone to hire; look in a different pool of candidates and be willing to accommodate them. For example, you can find a lot of very skilled developers that are disabled. I know a lot of people that have been coding professionally for 10+ years, have popularish open source projects, been lead devs at startups etc; yet feel stuck in their current jobs or even struggle to ge…

How exactly do you do that? I work for a company also struggling to find good senior developers and since the team is 100% remote, it's not like we'd have any idea if they were disabled or not...

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#182

Post by stevetron »

I won't do 'assignments'. I understand the reasoning, but I'm just plain burnt-out on test-taking of any-kind after I left grad school. I also don't want my 'test' answer to actually get used to solve a problem they actually had. To me, that is work-product-for-free.

Most of the code I've previously written is considered proprietary and I'm restricted to not disclose. That leaves me with only being able to show-off screen shots of personal projects.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#183

Post by the_watcher »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #167
bonzini wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perhaps pay people to complete the assignments. Assuming this is legal at all according to current employment contracts, it's a huge pain for the new employer's payroll and more stuff to keep track for the employee's income tax.

>Assuming this is legal at all according to current employment contracts, it's a huge pain for the new employer's payroll and more stuff to keep track for the employee's income tax. Is it actually? I run a small business, and have trialled people a few times. I normally just transfer them the $x and report it as a business expense, same as you'd do with a contractor. Maybe it's not technically 100% compliant, but I'd…

In the US, you might end up having to send a whole bunch of 1099s, which I am sure would be a pain.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#184

Post by ghaff »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #167
bonzini wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perhaps pay people to complete the assignments. Assuming this is legal at all according to current employment contracts, it's a huge pain for the new employer's payroll and more stuff to keep track for the employee's income tax.

>Assuming this is legal at all according to current employment contracts, it's a huge pain for the new employer's payroll and more stuff to keep track for the employee's income tax. Is it actually? I run a small business, and have trialled people a few times. I normally just transfer them the $x and report it as a business expense, same as you'd do with a contractor. Maybe it's not technically 100% compliant, but I'd…

In the US, you probably need to issue a tax form; this can be handled through a third party but then is a bit of a pain for the candidate. (I've had it work this way as a consultant on the side.)

Depending on the potential employee's contracts and business rules, doing a side project for someone may or may not be 100% kosher.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#185

Post by burnte »

Yeah, the last three steps are killing you. I'm not going to do a 4 hour skill assessment, period. No senior people will. We're not making a solid 6 figures because we're idiots faking our way through the world.

Skip that assessment and presentation, and implement a 90 day probationary period like everyone else.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#186

Post by RangerScience »

corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

I think I might (for non-network referrals) respond with "my hourly rate is $XX".

Has anyone done this? Has it worked?

PS - I also try to add on a 30m review of /their/ code, but so far it hasn't worked. I still ask!

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#187

Post by lazyant »

Post on https://www.reddit.com/r/devopsjobs/ and you'll get free feedback on the specifics. Usually a combination of:

- low salary. - not remote. - long/cumbersome interview process (for ex, 4hr take-home is too much and you are selecting for people who have the time to do them and not better offers). - other yellow/red flags (bullshit language in the ad, what company does etc).

I'm a devops guy with experience hiring and interviewing, feel free to email me for a quick comment on your posting.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#189

Post by bcrosby95 »

user00012-ab wrote: post #179
anon291 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. I used to do these assignment. Now I simply don't sorry. My schedule is 6:30 AM wake up with youngest daughter, to let wife sleep in (she takes care of her all night) 9:00 AM hand off youngest daughter to wife, who takes both girls the rest of the day. I go to m…

Seems like a good way to weed out people that are constantly taking time off to deal with kid issues.

This is just the wrong way to think about things if you actually want to hire senior devs. But it's not surprising, most companies are only used to dealing with being in a position of power.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#190

Post by corrral »

shadowofneptune wrote: post #170

I do not work in software, so I find how hiring works in it really odd. The amount of weight put on the interview compared to accreditation is unusual, and people in this thread consider that normal. There's no certification or examination for minimum competency. Looking online, there were attempts at making one, but they failed. How did it come to be this way?

I suspect the very horrible interviews at top-comp places exist in no small part to make it painful to switch between them, to reduce upward pressure on wages. I think it's version 2.0 of the earlier wage-fixing scheme they got busted for. That's why even a rigorous standardized examination isn't acceptable as a replacement for their painful interviews, even though spending all that time on whiteboard quiz interviews is expensive—the pain is much of the point.
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