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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#181

Post by kieselguhr_kid »

throwaway_95283 wrote: post #147
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wouldn't want to move from a vibrant coastal city to a suburb in Arkansas?

Given that SF is losing people and Boise is gaining them, apparently many people want to make that move. I guess some people think human excrement on the street isn't very "vibrant", they're probably racists or something for not liking it I'm sure.

This is 75% housing prices, 24% people leaving who never wanted to be there in the first place but moved for tech jobs, and 1% human excrement.

You can't fool me about Boise. I've been there.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#182

Post by TulliusCicero »

adam_arthur wrote: post #83
dontreact wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there is a wide gap between a single company organizing a union for their employers and a monopoly on the labor supply. I would be more convinced by your point if this wasn't one of the first tech unions (according to headline).

It depends how it's structured. If Kickstarter can go and hire non union labor, then all is good. If the whole union will quit unanimously if they do that, then they have effective monopoly power over labor for the company. The company will die if they try to bypass the union. In this case they could distort compensation far above what a competitive market would bear, and consumers of Kickstarter eat the cost (e.g. b…

> If the whole union will quit unanimously if they do that, then they have effective monopoly power over labor for the company.

This is no different from having to accept any other company policies.

A company has a monopoly on its own policies, including whether joining a union is required.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#183

Post by [deleted] »

ceejayoz wrote: post #165
native_samples wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth remembering that the event that, uh, kickstarted their drive for unionization was the site's management banning a project that was raising money to support violence against conservatives (the actual physical kind, not words). The details are a bit fuzzy now but iirc some of the hard-left employees didn't like the ToS being enforced in that case, because whilst they accepted the project was calling for viol…

> raising money to support violence against conservatives Let's be clear; the title was "Always Punch Nazis", not "Always Punch Conservatives". If you're mixing the two up, that's more on you than the author.

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#184

Post by kieselguhr_kid »

bjornsing wrote: post #158
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.

Yes. I think that’s exactly how Mao phrased it. ;)

"Power flows from the barrel of a gun": broke "Power flows from not being chatty with your coworkers": woke

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#185

Post by busterarm »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #175
CamperBob2 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying he doesn't want the choice denied to him, as unionization advocates frequently attempt to justify.

Democracy needs no apologies. You are denied choices everyday because society and government have agreed upon those choices. There will always be those upset because they feel their rights are infringed upon.

And the right to determine the terms with with you negotiate away your labor is among the most sacred.

Letting others do that for you is much closer to indentured servitude or slavery.

The problem with all of these collectivsts' arguments is that they all believe themselves to be in their utopia's social planning committee rather than themselves a laborer. And that's if they made it past the "shoot all the troublemakers" phase of their revolution.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#186

Post by adam_arthur »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #155
adam_arthur wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good thing Europe can mooch off US innovation and Chinese manufacturing. Manufacturing that is not unionized, by the way. If the US went the way of Europe, technological innovation would slow dramatically, which I'll argue is a bad outcome for the world in the long run. What do you think the cost of basic goods would rise to if all the Chinese manufacturing centers unionized?

> If the US went the way of Europe, technological innovation would slow dramatically, which I'll argue is a bad outcome for the world in the long run. IRL datapoints > counterfactuals: https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/projects/nordic-state-i... Also I said "Google it" for a reason. You picked an abstract one, and Sweden still beat us! And who could have guessed (me!), but Netherlands, Denmark, and Finland sit the…

Where do you think those earnings go in the long run? In a competitive market margins get driven down, and profitability feeds into lower cost of goods.

E.g. cloud providers must provide cheaper and cheaper service to stay competitive with other cloud providers. This in turn drives down costs for all technology in society.

Sure a union could try to take that profit and feed it into wages instead, but that's worse for society in the end.

When profit margins maintain at excessive levels it's typically an indication that there's either a first mover advantage, or the company is a pseudo-monopoly.

I'd argue there are some big cases where that applies today

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#187

Post by toomuchtodo »

busterarm wrote: post #185
toomuchtodo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy needs no apologies. You are denied choices everyday because society and government have agreed upon those choices. There will always be those upset because they feel their rights are infringed upon.

And the right to determine the terms with with you negotiate away your labor is among the most sacred. Letting others do that for you is much closer to indentured servitude or slavery. The problem with all of these collectivsts' arguments is that they all believe themselves to be in their utopia's social planning committee rather than themselves a laborer. And that's if they made it past the "shoot all the troublemak…

What you advocate for, not organizing, is what got us to the indentured servitude and slavery current state (US centric of course). Those who can’t recognize that are beyond hope (as they ignore the economic data clearly demonstrating the benefits), and to cater to them or entertain their desire to maintain the status quo helps no one but themselves.

Edit: This forum has some sort of empathy deficiency in aggregate.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#188

Post by foobarian »

busterarm wrote: post #134
xibo9 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"unskilled labor" What an extremely elitist phrase.

It's not elitist. Some skills are effectively commoditized. They don't require specialized, rare knowledge, years of training and constant personal investment. If you pick a job that literally anyone else can learn to do in a few days, then the cap on your salary and lack of bargaining power is on you.

I mean, it is elitist. Is that inaccurate? What I don't get is why that is supposed to be bad. It's just a fact.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#189

Post by BitwiseFool »

ceejayoz wrote: post #165
native_samples wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth remembering that the event that, uh, kickstarted their drive for unionization was the site's management banning a project that was raising money to support violence against conservatives (the actual physical kind, not words). The details are a bit fuzzy now but iirc some of the hard-left employees didn't like the ToS being enforced in that case, because whilst they accepted the project was calling for viol…

> raising money to support violence against conservatives Let's be clear; the title was "Always Punch Nazis", not "Always Punch Conservatives". If you're mixing the two up, that's more on you than the author.

>"Let's be clear; the title was "Always Punch Nazis", not "Always Punch Conservatives". If you're mixing the two up, that's more on you than the author."

I've definitely noticed an overlap between the kinds of folks who want society to embrace and normalize violence against "Nazis" and the kinds of folks who go around accusing opponents of Nazism with little to no restraint.

Edit: I'm struggling to articulate this, but I also sense a rhetorical sleight-of-hand along the lines of "By definition, we only go after Nazis. If you claim that Nazi we went after was actually a conservative, that says more about you than it does about us and it makes us question your sympathies."

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#190

Post by busterarm »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #187
busterarm wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the right to determine the terms with with you negotiate away your labor is among the most sacred. Letting others do that for you is much closer to indentured servitude or slavery. The problem with all of these collectivsts' arguments is that they all believe themselves to be in their utopia's social planning committee rather than themselves a laborer. And that's if they made it past the "shoot all the troublemak…

What you advocate for, not organizing, is what got us to the indentured servitude and slavery current state (US centric of course). Those who can’t recognize that are beyond hope (as they ignore the economic data clearly demonstrating the benefits), and to cater to them or entertain their desire to maintain the status quo helps no one but themselves. Edit: This forum has some sort of empathy deficiency in aggregate.

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