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Flutter 3

docs.flutter.dev

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Re: Flutter 3

#181

Post by qalmakka »

Mertax wrote: post #151
mhoad wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth Dart is hands down the nicest OOP language I’ve ever used in my opinion. It’s like they took all the good things about JS and Java and cut out all the bad parts. What’s left is basically Dart.

I think the decision of which cross platform technology to use mostly depends on a team's preferred tech stack. C++ -> QT C#/.NET -> MAUI/Blazor JS/Web -> React.Native/Electron Dart -> Flutter This is what I think is holding back Flutter -- that it wasn't built on an incumbent technology. Because Dart doesn't have quite the following, it has to evangelize itself a bit more than the other options.

I've used PySide6 recently and I must say it's great, so you can also add Python to Qt's side.

Re: Flutter 3

#182

Post by mhoad »

SemanticStrengh wrote: post #172
mhoad wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth Dart is hands down the nicest OOP language I’ve ever used in my opinion. It’s like they took all the good things about JS and Java and cut out all the bad parts. What’s left is basically Dart.

People being pleased with Dart is only because they have not tasted better, everything is relative. Kotlin is miles ahead.

Yes, of course, everyone who disagrees with me is just an idiot who doesn’t know better. Excellent discourse.

Re: Flutter 3

#183

Post by SemanticStrengh »

danielvaughn wrote: post #125
SemanticStrengh wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere wtf.. Ionic/electron is the true cross platform, no debate. Flutter web is dog shit.

Ionic is pretty awful too, though I can't fault them. It's just that papering a web interface on top of a native app is gonna be a poor experience no matter what.

sounds very unsubstantiated. please examplify, Ionic capacitor native support is excellent, in fact you can arbitrarilly call the android/IOS SDKs, with or without nativescript. You do understand there is no native difference between Ionic and flutter right?

Re: Flutter 3

#184

Post by livinglist »

mnorris wrote: post #149
livinglist wrote: post #121

I have been working on a Hacker News client using Flutter, if anyone is interested: https://github.com/Livinglist/Hacki

Thanks for sharing! The design looks really slick. As a hobbyist Flutter developer who hasn't figured out how to make Flutter apps look remotely appealing yet, it's been cool poking around your code and trying to learn from it. Bloc and Cubit look especially interesting.

thanks! here’s another Hacker News client made with Flutter from another dev that has a much better looking UI, but it is only available on FDroid. (though you can build it yourself for iOS):

https://github.com/Mosc/Glider

Re: Flutter 3

#185

Post by LocalPCGuy »

mekkkkkk wrote: post #176
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is 100% being framed as "You can build your app once and deploy it everywhere" with everywhere including web. It's sorta maddening, IMO. There are certain types of apps I could see using Flutter for (basically, ones that would lean heavily on canvas anyways, games, drawing, etc.)

It's hard to quantify exactly what "everywhere" means, but for the vast majority of end-user devices, you'll have a more efficient Flutter build target than web. You're probably right in that they are pushing the "first class web target" narrative a bit far, though.

Just to be clear, I used the word everywhere. I believe they are quite a bit more explicit in framing it for all platforms, including web specifically. It's possible we'll see it get there, but I think there is a lot of things to do (and undo) to do that.

Re: Flutter 3

#186

Post by mleonhard »

onli wrote: post #154
mattsolle wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of these comments are not necessarily valid or have been addressed already and we've lost the actual productive feedback in the mess. - Integration testing - This exists and is very commonly used: https://docs.flutter.dev/cookbook/testing/integration/introd... - Location - This 100% should be a core offering, its crazy that its not for mobile application. - iOS dark mode - Flutter supports Dark Mode - h…

Just an additional note: Integration testing was indeed completely broken for a while, with the docs stating otherwise. They reworked it a few releases ago and since then it works well for us (limited usage, but completely stable for what we do with it).

Do you have tests that run on your host machine, can start an API server and interact with it, and also drive the Flutter app? Or do your tests run on the mobile device?

Re: Flutter 3

#187

Post by qalmakka »

the_duke wrote: post #42

Despite many maturity issues in practice Flutter is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere. Apart from Qt , but the licensing issue is a hindrance. And yes, the web backend isn't ideal, but it will improve over time. I just wish Google had built Flutter on a low level core that isn't tied to Dart, so it would be usable from other languages. Dart isn't horrible and is getting better,…

> Apart from Qt, but the licensing issue is a hindrance

Qt is LGPLv3, which is really a problem only if you plan to develop embedded software.

Sure, there are a few GPL v3 modules here and there, but it's mostly very specific stuff (virtual keyboards, Wayland compositors, ...)

Re: Flutter 3

#188

Post by mhoad »

hunterb123 wrote: post #178
mhoad wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Facebook app is not written in React Native. They tried it and famously abandoned it no?

The Marketplace tab in the FB app is written in React Native. The Ads Manager app is written in React Native. The Instagram app is written in React Native. The entire FB app is not written in React Native yet, but overtime I'd expect more things to be. The statement that FB "abandoned react native on mobile" is demonstrably false.

If I’m wrong then I’m happy to admit it. I don’t follow that ecosystem closely and was only going off a few old blog posts I remember and everyone making a big deal of it at the time.

Re: Flutter 3

#189

Post by SemanticStrengh »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #41
the_duke wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For accessibility they create a separate DOM tree just for screen readers.

Are there declarative and performant ways to synchronize a canvas with a DOM tree? Maybe the answer here is obvious but this seems like quite a bit of overhead, both for developers and the browser.

at this point you'd better get rid of the canvas

Re: Flutter 3

#190

Post by LocalPCGuy »

mhoad wrote: post #179
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah, this is a pretty solid list of things that, if they all hit and work as we hope they do, it could enable building things with tech like Flutter and having it work well. I think that's why I generally say FlutterWeb isn't production ready and not that it'll never be. I don't care for the path they took originally, it feels like a bandaid and has a lot of issues. They may get there eventually, and I'll be happy to…

I’m betting on Flutter web across a 2-3 year timeframe but none of the things I’ve listed there are conceptual ideas that are only going to land in the distant future. WebGPU and WasmGC are both already implemented in most browsers and are currently just behind a flag as far as I know. It doesn’t feel like magical thinking to me at all, it’s a pretty clear path forward IMO.

Oh, I do mostly agree with you that it isn't magical thinking. I do think there were some choices made that might make it a bit more difficult to switch, but the Flutter team has been willing to make big shifts in the past.

Personally, I'm not willing to be on Flutter Web right now, and as you can see, I still actively dissuade it's use as I don't think it's good for the web as it is. But that doesn't mean that in a few years I'll think differently.

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