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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

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Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#181

Post by luckydata »

kragen wrote: post #159
scollet wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adderall does not work on NT brains. They would be able to perform tasks regardless.

Adderall has been one of the most popular recreational drugs since the 01960s, despite causing multi-organ failure in common recreational doses, which are higher than the therapeutic doses. If it didn't work on neurotypical brains, it wouldn't be popular.

I think you're purposefully misrepresenting what "works" means in this context. ADHD people can think a lot more clearly with it. The effect of stimulants is completely different on a brain like ours compared to a normal person as it helps regulates brain function in a way that ours can't.

For normal people it just gets you euphoric and agitated, we get CALMER cause we live in a state of constant agitation.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#182

Post by kqr »

aahortwwy wrote: post #175
GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

> the diagnostic criteria for ADHD and many other disorders require that the deviation amount to a disorder rather than not interfering with someone's life. > interfering with someone's life The specific phrase used in the DSM-V is: "symptoms interfere with or reduce the quality of social, academic, or occupational functioning". Schooling started to become compulsory in the USA in the mid-to-late 19th century, and re…

I am very close to someone who suffers from this disorder. Their inability to function in terms of personal care, family, social life, occupationally, etc. goes way beyond "normal behaviour in a system that does not accommodate everyone".

Try imagining a literal five-year old in a grown-up body. That's what this person is like when it comes to anything that does not have immediate (I say this with love, to be clear. They are the most wonderful person. But I could not live with them without support.

Any system that accommodate this type of problem needs an external support structure to offload the burden on many other people. In our society, we call it mental healthcare, and we use diagnoses to help triage.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#183

Post by luckydata »

thequux wrote: post #59

I have ADD. Not ADHD; I'm almost never hyperactive. I do, however, hyperfocus on anything and everything, to the point that it's caused severe problems to my career, relationships, and personal life. I'm nearly always hyperfocused on something, and I rarely have control over what that is. I'll forget to eat, sleep, talk to people, or really do anything else for several days at a time when it gets bad. Fortunately, ov…

ADD is just old terminology. You have ADHD, and you should read up on some updated science cause you got some very weird, very wrong ideas about your own condition.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33549739/

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#184

Post by photojosh »

hirvi74 wrote: post #127
chasd00 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right, over the last couple years i've noticed ADHD as becoming like a hobby mental disorder. Lot's of people claim it as like something to be proud of. If you really have ADHD then you know it's an absolute miserable experience and the right medication can change you're life. I wasn't properly diagnosed until my very early 30s and I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dos…

> I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dosage for me How did you know you hit the mark when you found it? I have been trying for the greater part of a decade, and I think there are only two possible explanations at this point: 1. I am one of the x% of people that medications do not work /as well/ for. 2. I have too high of expectations of the effects of the medications. Doctors have bee…

Not GP, but I've commented on a few of your comments so far, so will keep going.

I still haven't repaired a few things in my life that still cause me significant stress (happy to go in-depth if you email, see bio), but I really had no idea what the medication would do until I tried it.

For me; it quietened my (extremely vocal) inner critic and therefore lowered my anxiety, and it slowed down the rapid bounce-around of my thoughts, particularly in situations where I wasn't deeply stimulated (eg I outlasted my kid playing ball for the first time ever because I stayed interested and wasn't just counting down the minutes until I could say 'okay that's enough'). And that's it.

But that means I can actually start to do the hard work of building the right habits to put some important bits of my life back on track, particularly when they'd been built wrong and have to be torn down.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#185

Post by cbfrench »

hirvi74 wrote: post #127
chasd00 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right, over the last couple years i've noticed ADHD as becoming like a hobby mental disorder. Lot's of people claim it as like something to be proud of. If you really have ADHD then you know it's an absolute miserable experience and the right medication can change you're life. I wasn't properly diagnosed until my very early 30s and I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dos…

> I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dosage for me How did you know you hit the mark when you found it? I have been trying for the greater part of a decade, and I think there are only two possible explanations at this point: 1. I am one of the x% of people that medications do not work /as well/ for. 2. I have too high of expectations of the effects of the medications. Doctors have bee…

I honestly think it’s probably 2. I’m on 36mg of Concerta and .2mg of Clonidine. The combo has helped with my mood regulation, working memory, attention, and (to a much lesser extent) my motivation. But it’s not a cure-all. I feel like it helps me to get to Everest base camp, but I still have to climb the damn mountain. My wife is a litigator, and I am daily made very aware of the differences in our ability to organize and execute tasks. I’ve found that medication will get you to a baseline ability to function, but it’s on you to develop the external structures that can enable actual success/productivity/etc. If you aren’t already familiar with the work of Russell Barkley, I’d highly recommend it. He emphasizes the need to create informational strategies to supplement the medication. The meds are helpful—tremendously so—but they are a starting point.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#186

Post by photojosh »

cbfrench wrote: post #169
photojosh wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! I would just add that I like to refer to it as "attention dysregulation " rather than 'deficit'... my experience I can focus on one singular task to the exclusion of all other needs and demands (even base biological ones), to point of being in pain and exhaustion and causing myself harm. Staying up for 40 hours programming... running trails for hours and hours... I have more than enough attention.

That’s a major reason why Dr. Russell Barkley refers to it as Executive Function Disorder. We actually don’t have a problem with attention; we have a problem prioritizing what we attend to. Everyone with ADHD is familiar with the hyperfocus phenomenon. We can pay attention (even sustained, abnormally intense attention) to activities that provide a healthy dopamine payout, but we don’t really control what those activi…

Yes! I've been slowly getting into his work on the various executive functions, not just the intellectual/thinking one... emotional regulation is a big thing too!

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#187

Post by di4na »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #122
thenerdhead wrote: post #14

The part I hate most today is that if you relate to a video on ADHD/DID/Depression/Schizophrenia/etc, you will be fed the content until you convince yourself you have a “character trait”. That’s a serious problem with long term effects on society. I’m very sure I sit somewhere on the spectrum and have depressive disorder markers as well. But the last thing I want to do is to promote these traits. I am not proud of th…

Contrary to the depiction above it remains as far as I know exceptionally difficult to acquire adhd treating medication; they’re almost all controlled substances, heavily regulated and consumption tightly monitored.

The US is quite more lax about it, state depending.

Outside of them, yes it is a nightmare that looks exactly how you would design a process someone with ADHD cannot go through.

I see no ill will behind it. It is just bureaucracy combined with moral panic.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#188

Post by themacguffinman »

faeriechangling wrote: post #72
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. The author frankly does not know what he’s talking about. And, clinically, he does not have ADHD. I have a mood disorder (NPSLE). I am on permanent d…

Looking at the ADHD diagnostic criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html The criteria specifies that "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning." I don't see this as being the same thing as ADHD being a NEGATIVE. It's like saying that being short is a disorder because it interferes with picking fruit from tall trees, and bein…

Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind.

That criteria sentence from the CDC website is overly broad. If you watch more technical talks [1] on ADHD they go into much more detail about what ADHD is exactly and why it affects almost everything very severely (it has a specific impact on executive function, which cuts across a lot of behavior). It's not just a wishy washy way of describing a category of dysfunction.

[1] one example: Dr Russell A Barkley ADHD - The 30 Essential Ideas everyone needs to know https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wW...

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#189

Post by di4na »

lghh wrote: post #73
symlinkk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not. How are you so sure you really have it?

I understand why you're asking. I have often felt that way myself and it's why I put off getting treatment for so long. I was worried I would just end up being some 30 year old tech dude addicted to adderall who didn't actually need it. I want to address those questions in others since getting a diagnosis was so helpful for me. I want to educate around it. The short answer is that I was diagnosed independently by 2 p…

As someone still struggling to get an appointment just to possibly validate a diagnosis but with all these symptoms.

Thank you. I may not have adhd but at least it gives hope.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#190

Post by cbfrench »

symlinkk wrote: post #56
lghh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 30. I got diagnosed with ADHD a few months ago and I started treatment (adderall and lifestyle changes). Growing up, ADHD was my biggest enemy in life and I didn't even realize it. Once I began treatment, the change was almost overnight. I know I'm just one data point in a sea of data points, but I really just want to add that I'm on the other end of the parent comment and getting diagnosed, other than my marria…

I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not. How are you so sure you really have it?

There is at least some question about whether or not ADHD meds actually have cognitive benefits for non-ADHD users. This study, which is admittedly limited, shows that Adderall doesn’t provide a serious neurocognitive benefit to healthy individuals: https://www.mdpi.com/2226-4787/6/3/58

At the very least, it’s possible that the benefits to healthy individuals are highly subjective.

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