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Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

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Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#181

Post by bipson »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #167
cyberlurker wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many doctors also tell pregnant women to stay away from soy. One doctor linked me to a study that male babies from mothers that drank soy during pregnancy had statistically smaller genitalia. You might be right about “overly cautious” but I think doctors being that way is more reputable than gym rats quoting their favorite fitness blog.

Pregnant women have been consuming soy foods for thousands of years in East Asia, there should be an overwhelmingly large amount of studies that suggest ill effects to weigh against that.

Pregnant women have been consuming all kinds of food for centuries.

We also took insane child mortality numbers and all kinds of defects for granted.

Our mothers still consumed food that has a tendency to contain/grow listeria. Then it was found in several cases where the reason for the death of the child was not known.

Now pregnant women (at least in Europe) are strongly advised to avoid products from raw milk and uncooked meat (hams and salami.

Things change, and not without a reason.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#182

Post by wbsss4412 »

bipson wrote: post #181
wbsss4412 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pregnant women have been consuming soy foods for thousands of years in East Asia, there should be an overwhelmingly large amount of studies that suggest ill effects to weigh against that.

Pregnant women have been consuming all kinds of food for centuries. We also took insane child mortality numbers and all kinds of defects for granted. Our mothers still consumed food that has a tendency to contain/grow listeria. Then it was found in several cases where the reason for the death of the child was not known. Now pregnant women (at least in Europe) are strongly advised to avoid products from raw milk and u…

Yes, and those changes happened in the face of clear and overwhelming scientific evidence.

I’m not advocating blind adherence to tradition, I’m simply stating that the Null hypothesis is that soy foods are perfectly fine for health, until actual scientific evidence proves otherwise. All that exists not amounts to nothing more than conjecture, which, given the amount of attention this topic has gotten over the years, one would presume more evidence would be present by now.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#183

Post by Reason077 »

zukzuk wrote: post #89
unicornporn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to Oatly... It tastes good, but that's because it contains plenty of sugars. You'll notice the difference when you make your own oat milk from oats. It's tastes quite terrible actually. Oatly adds enzymes to break down the starches to sugar. https://www.gq.com/story/oatly-nutrition-ipo

So does cow milk. 7g* of added sugar in a cup of Oatly, about 8g of various sugars in a cup of milk. Oatly add the sugar to more closely simulate the flavour of milk, but it tastes about as sweet... and both are way too sweet if you ask me. *The nutrition profile is a bit more complicated as I think they add enzymes to break down starches in the oats, so you end up with more sugar even though it's not technically "ad…

> "7g of added sugar in a cup of Oatly"

Oatly (and most other oat milks) do NOT "add" any sugar! The sugar in oat milk comes from the starch naturally present in the oats, which is broken down into sugars by amylase enzymes during the production process.

(AFAIK the "added sugars" wording on US Oatly labels is due to a technicality of US labelling laws. It's doesn't say that on European labels.)

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#184

Post by ekianjo »

greenonions wrote: post #109
citilife wrote: post #55

I'm curious the long-term side effects on the body. I'm not sure it's better, we're something like 10,000 years into developing the ability to drink milk. I'm not sure we know what the effects of high soy intake is (only 10-15 years into mass consumer adoption -- we do see massive drops in sex hormones; possibly related, it is correlated). Also, I really dislike how these studies are conducted. They often don't accou…

Soy milk is hundreds of years old. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that the hormone drop is caused by soy milk. American bison digest far better than cows and don't produce methane. What is natural about millions of cows in factories producing milk? Additionally these cows are being fed enormous amounts of gmo monocrops in order to produce. Almond milk is indeed a wasteful product, but the misallocation of sca…

> Soy milk is hundreds of years old

Consumption of large amounts of soy milk every day is surely not hundreds of years old.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#185

Post by zihotki »

oh_sigh wrote: post #77
unicornporn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to Oatly... It tastes good, but that's because it contains plenty of sugars. You'll notice the difference when you make your own oat milk from oats. It's tastes quite terrible actually. Oatly adds enzymes to break down the starches to sugar. https://www.gq.com/story/oatly-nutrition-ipo

Oatly original has 7g of sugar - 1 cup of whole cows milk has 12 g of sugar. So it is still significantly less sugar than cow's milk. I drink planet oat milk, and that only has 4g of sugar and tastes good to me.

I double-checked the amount of sugar in milk and in my area, Netherlands, all milk (whole or not) contains less than 5g of sugar per 100g. While Oatly has indeed about 7g per 100g. So it's quite the opposite, oatly has significantly more sugar with higher glycemic index.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#186

Post by zihotki »

causi wrote: post #83
unicornporn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to Oatly... It tastes good, but that's because it contains plenty of sugars. You'll notice the difference when you make your own oat milk from oats. It's tastes quite terrible actually. Oatly adds enzymes to break down the starches to sugar. https://www.gq.com/story/oatly-nutrition-ipo

Is that not a good thing? Starches break down into sugars in the body anyway and presumably have similar deleterious effects on the liver. May as well enjoy tasting them.

It is not, timing matters. It takes some time for starches to break into sugar therefore the release of sugars is not spiking. Glycemic index was created to show a difference between good and bad carbs.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#187

Post by zihotki »

BobbyJo wrote: post #44
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #17

Questions that come to mind: 1. What percentage of land use for dairy cows is arable? 2. What percentage of water consumed by dairy cows is recycled (eg from rain water), how does that compare to something like almonds? 3. What percentage of greenhouse gas emissions are added to the environment over already existing in the environment and just being moved?

> What percentage of land use for dairy cows is arable? Pretty much all of it. It's either being used directly for grass, or indirectly to grow grains which are fed to the cows. > What percentage of greenhouse gas emissions are added to the environment over already existing in the environment and just being moved? I think the number itself is the amount over what already existed.

You must consider other factors as well. The grass where cows are feeding is also a home and food for many other species. Making the land arable makes that void. Add pesticides, add other things to fight animals eating crops and the picture you get is just another extreme.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#188

Post by Reason077 »

zihotki wrote: post #185
oh_sigh wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oatly original has 7g of sugar - 1 cup of whole cows milk has 12 g of sugar. So it is still significantly less sugar than cow's milk. I drink planet oat milk, and that only has 4g of sugar and tastes good to me.

I double-checked the amount of sugar in milk and in my area, Netherlands, all milk (whole or not) contains less than 5g of sugar per 100g. While Oatly has indeed about 7g per 100g. So it's quite the opposite, oatly has significantly more sugar with higher glycemic index.

The US nutrition label lists sugars per serving, which is 240ml. So according to the US rules it's 7g sugar per 240ml, not per 100g (or 100ml).

The US Oatly label lists "Total Carbohydrate 16 g, Includes 7 g added sugars" per 240ml.

The UK Oatly label lists "Carbohydrate: 6.6 g, of which sugars: 4.0 g" per 100ml. Pretty sure the Netherlands product and label is the same as the UK one.

Re: Milk alternatives produce up to 4.5x less greenhouse gas emissions as milk

#190

Post by jyounker »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #158
jyounker wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a mammal. You can milk it. It just takes a lot of time and appropriate milking equipment. Fortunately a full automated milking machine fits in a lunch pail. Sadly the equipment only gets you several thimblefuls per hamster-day.

But it also horizontally scales and fits in server racks.

Giving a new definition to server farms. :)
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