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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#181

Post by bombcar »

zdragnar wrote: post #146
skulk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

Growing, but still rural city in the Midwest I visited a few weeks back has decent homes for sale in the 50-80k range. This is not an outlier. Roughly 2/3 of Americans own homes. If you live in an area where homes are priced like luxury investments, then yes, you'll have a hard time buying when you also cannot afford other luxuries. If you live in an area where they are not, it isn't unattainable at all, especially i…

Many people would consider a suggestion to live in the Midwest as about the same as a suggestion that they spend the rest of their life living in a decrepit sewer system.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#182

Post by barbecue_sauce »

ushakov wrote: post #130
rtlfe wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have to choose your specialization wisely The problem is that most people don't get to choose. There are few of these high paying jobs, so by definition most people are excluded. Either because they're not "smart" enough to get into elite training programs (e.g. medical school) or because they don't have enough money to spend years in training with zero or negative income.

that's in the US though in Germany even if you're poor you can go to the University and succeed my friends all studied and they were from normal working-class families everyone gets a chance and all you need is put some effort

I thought that in Germany you were essentially hand-picked by age 10 what educational track you would wind up on.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#183

Post by Solvitieg »

eulers_secret wrote: post #90
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

This is part of why I left my job. I had the realization that my dream (homeownership/2 kids) was untenable with my income (~$135K TC) in my area. I could certainly get the credit for it, but my life would be one long hardship living under wage slavery, being house-poor, having little free time, paying exorbitantly to watch others raise my kids, and not having the opportunities I currently have... I kinda gave up on…

I currently have enough money saved to travel the world for 5 years. That's a long time. Imagine how much more fulfilling that journey would be than putting this money towards a lowend 1-bedroom condo in Vancouver and then working 20 years at a high-end career to pay it off. Insane proposition. VHCOL cities are not appealing anymore. I want out.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#184

Post by skulk »

midislack wrote: post #137
skulk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

Are you joking? In this example rent is only a small fraction of income.

As another commenter pointed out, a 3.5% down FHA loan would make it feasible to buy a house with those numbers. But in any case, $80k is up there in terms of typical trades salaries, at least if cursory Googling can be trusted. Your median tradesman makes far less.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#185

Post by woojoo666 »

slg wrote: post #174
woojoo666 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found a website that says average cost of living in New York (for 1 person) is $3200/month. That's around 40,000 per year. If the electrician is making 80k, that would mean they could save 25k/year after taxes and living expenses. 8 years of work and they would have 200k, enough for a down payment right? And this is assuming they live in new york, one of the most expensive places in the world [1]: https://livingcos…

These numbers don't add up. Someone making $80k in NY will be paying at least 15-20% in taxes. This hypothetical person would have a max of like $400 a month for all their non-housing living expenses. That isn't happening in a high COL state like NY.

I assumed 15% taxes, so 80k - 15k (taxes) - 40k (living expenses) = 25k

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#186

Post by Forgeties79 »

immigrantheart wrote: post #139
Forgeties79 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly what they’re asking but for different reasons.

Sorry, could you elaborate? I'm not sure why I got downvoted, I genuinely curious how they are going to pay the bills.

I think before I elaborate too much I have to ask you a question: do you genuinely believe that most of Gen Z is actually refusing to work/is against the entire concept of working for pay?

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#187

Post by Arcanum-XIII »

madaxe_again wrote: post #108
rtlfe wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I quite like being a programmer. This job is truly an anomaly. There are very few careers where you can earn top 1% income with no degree, no physical exertion, under 8 hours a day "on the clock", the freedom to quit any time and have multiple new offers within days, etc, etc.

That’s the thing. I know this sounds glib, but the barrier to entry is so low ($20 5th hand laptop will do just fine to do first-steps development), I can’t understand why the market isn’t flooded with coders. So many people say “oh I could never do what you do”, and I’m like “I’m a shaved ape who wanted to play computer games and accidentally ended up learning stuff, you absolutely can”. Then they just go on saying…

To add to the other answers, it's also because most persons are bad at coding. They do understand the basic of an if/else/loop but can't create any kind of process with them.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#188

Post by woojoo666 »

wonnage wrote: post #172
woojoo666 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found a website that says average cost of living in New York (for 1 person) is $3200/month. That's around 40,000 per year. If the electrician is making 80k, that would mean they could save 25k/year after taxes and living expenses. 8 years of work and they would have 200k, enough for a down payment right? And this is assuming they live in new york, one of the most expensive places in the world [1]: https://livingcos…

Sure, if you save every cent and commit to being single without children for 8 years. But if you go to the dentist, drop your phone on accident, find an S/O, go to the gym, eat out every once in a while, buy some new clothes, pay off student loans, ... It's just very silly to find a website, grab a number, and then conclude that saving 200k in 8 years is realistic

I think the living expenses include health expenses, but other expenses like phones and travel probably not

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#189

Post by skulk »

bombcar wrote: post #181
zdragnar wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing, but still rural city in the Midwest I visited a few weeks back has decent homes for sale in the 50-80k range. This is not an outlier. Roughly 2/3 of Americans own homes. If you live in an area where homes are priced like luxury investments, then yes, you'll have a hard time buying when you also cannot afford other luxuries. If you live in an area where they are not, it isn't unattainable at all, especially i…

Many people would consider a suggestion to live in the Midwest as about the same as a suggestion that they spend the rest of their life living in a decrepit sewer system.

Maybe you should try to understand why certain kinds of people (of, perhaps the non-white kind) would not want to move into an insular community?

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#190

Post by zdragnar »

bombcar wrote: post #181
zdragnar wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing, but still rural city in the Midwest I visited a few weeks back has decent homes for sale in the 50-80k range. This is not an outlier. Roughly 2/3 of Americans own homes. If you live in an area where homes are priced like luxury investments, then yes, you'll have a hard time buying when you also cannot afford other luxuries. If you live in an area where they are not, it isn't unattainable at all, especially i…

Many people would consider a suggestion to live in the Midwest as about the same as a suggestion that they spend the rest of their life living in a decrepit sewer system.

Fine by me; there's plenty of natural beauty and life style that would be utterly ruined by a massive influx of tech bro outsiders.

In the last year or two a locally-famous lighthouse went up for sale and was bought for cash by some guy from silicon valley. Instead of being turned into an attraction, or a house, or hell even an Airbnb spot, it remains untouched much to the chagrin of the locals. I guess the new owner can't be bothered to come out here and just liked the idea of bragging that he owned it.

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