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ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

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181–190 of 329 posts

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#181
post #46

The whole net neutrality saga just exposed the deep regulatory capture between ISPs and the FCC (the Republican Commissioners at least). Pai's argument for repealing net neutrality was that it wasn't a Federal government concern. That was originally what prompted California to institute these rules. But suddenly it wasn't a state issue either. Weird . The US has some of the most expensive Internet access in the world…

[flagged]

Horrible straw man arguments

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It only matters when it's about laws that they favor. If the laws you mentioned were federal laws, and there were state laws that countered them, there would be nary a suggestion of states' rights from conservatives.

[flagged]

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#183
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME politics is based around clusters of concrete conclusions like "abortion should be legal". All arguments and abstract principles (like "states rights") are deployed and discarded opportunistically in the service of the fixed conclusions.

I wish people were more honest about it, but is it even bad to care more about political outcomes than arbitrary details about the structure of the government? Like is there any reason that normal people should have a first principles opinion on the exact distribution of responsibilities between two levels of government?

>I wish people were more honest about it, but is it even bad to care more about political outcomes than arbitrary details about the structure of the government?

Of course it's not bad. What's bad is degrading the role of truth in political debates by selectively invoking states rights or federal rule as sacred principles, only to be abandoned or reaffirmed depending on the needs of any given debate.

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience as well along both sides of the axis. If you're not "Lets Go Brandon" or whatever the equivalent is on the left, you usually are reasonable and have valid opinions. Even more so, we usually share the same ideals just have different ways of getting there. There isn't huge division out there. Just two camps of dicks with most of us in the middle.

Quoted post unavailable.

The entire reason "Let's Go Brandon" became a thing was that the incident validated conservative complaints about big media bias. It was "Were you saying 'Boo', or 'Boo-urns'??" in real life.

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#185
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME politics is based around clusters of concrete conclusions like "abortion should be legal". All arguments and abstract principles (like "states rights") are deployed and discarded opportunistically in the service of the fixed conclusions.

I wish people were more honest about it, but is it even bad to care more about political outcomes than arbitrary details about the structure of the government? Like is there any reason that normal people should have a first principles opinion on the exact distribution of responsibilities between two levels of government?

I think the responsibility distribution (and magnitude of power) strongly affects the long-term outcome of our country.

Concretely, I prefer power to be decentralized to the most local and smallest group of people that is feasible. (Feasible is doing a lot of work in that sentence; I acknowledge.) In the limit, the smallest group of people is a single individual.

Even if a more powerful federal government would be likely to decide “my way” on Friday April 22, 2022’s three most important topics to me, I’d still want that decision to be as local as possible because, over the course of my life and my children’s lives, I think we get better decisions and outcomes from more local decisions where the people affected know the people discussing and deciding.

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#186
post #46

The whole net neutrality saga just exposed the deep regulatory capture between ISPs and the FCC (the Republican Commissioners at least). Pai's argument for repealing net neutrality was that it wasn't a Federal government concern. That was originally what prompted California to institute these rules. But suddenly it wasn't a state issue either. Weird . The US has some of the most expensive Internet access in the world…

[flagged]

This conversation devolved into politicized characterization fast.

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#187
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support this, but I can try to steel man this position. Largely it comes with the idea that use = cost, and that infrastructure has limited capacity and is therefore zeroish sum. For example, a common idea is that we should tax trucks more than other cars because they cause a large amount of damage to our roads. Following that logic, the companies that encourage users to consume more bandwidth should be charg…

The road-tax is neutral, it doesn't matter what goods you transport. Imagine charging the producers of the most transported goods to pay a fee in addition to the road-tax and otherwise blocking their goods being transported for the rest of the month. Net neutrality asks the internet to work how road taxes work. You pay for a certain bandwidth (a truck) and you can transport whatever goods you want with that. It doesn…

Note that roads are not neutral in the “net neutrality” sense, since emergency vehicles are prioritized. There’s a cogent argument against net neutrality on similar grounds: i.e., prioritizing traffic with prioritized purpose, especially in the face of congestion.

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#188
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support this, but I can try to steel man this position. Largely it comes with the idea that use = cost, and that infrastructure has limited capacity and is therefore zeroish sum. For example, a common idea is that we should tax trucks more than other cars because they cause a large amount of damage to our roads. Following that logic, the companies that encourage users to consume more bandwidth should be charg…

The solution for that is already in place – charge for bandwidth. If users pay $30 for 100 Mpbs or $60 for 500 Mpbs etc., and on top of it there are caps on total data consumed, where does the idea of further segmenting and prioritizing traffic even come from?

Most people aren't going to think about their internet usage in terms of total data used, because working out how much data a particular site or service will cost them is a lot of work and requires knowing technical details that most people don't pay attention to. That results in a market for internet products that offer unlimited access to particular sites, sometimes with restrictions like only standard-definition video in the unlimited video plan. In addition, there's not really such a thing as single-price bandwidth to the entire internet at the scale most large ISPs are operating at - they're setting up peering with particular networks, some of which like to try and push more of the costs of peering onto the ISP side than others.

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#189
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, but I ran into this issue while discussing with some people living in the US (foreigners no less) and it's crazy how much they bought into the ISP propaganda. They're not stupid people, but they got convinced that they can't check their email because their neighbour is on Netflix and this is all Netflix's fault. When you hear the same argument repeated in the same way, it's always an indicator that…

"Brainwashing has caused people to believe in network congestion caused by high bandwidth usage."

Do networks not fill up and get congested?

Re: ISPs can’t find any judges who will block California net neutrality law

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience as well along both sides of the axis. If you're not "Lets Go Brandon" or whatever the equivalent is on the left, you usually are reasonable and have valid opinions. Even more so, we usually share the same ideals just have different ways of getting there. There isn't huge division out there. Just two camps of dicks with most of us in the middle.

Quoted post unavailable.

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