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U.S. forgives 40k student loans

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#181

Post by commandlinefan »

_moof wrote: post #27

Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.

> are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 ... nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness

Well, FWIW, I'd never heard of that program before now, but I'm not super happy about it, either.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#182

Post by BitwiseFool »

hunterb123 wrote: post #139
marricks wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

45 million folks in the US have student loans so even some action for 3.6 million folks isn’t a large percentage.

So since it's only 8% it's fine? How many 8% increments can there be until we're allowed to be against this? I'm against any percentage of funneling taxpayer money to college administrators. Reduce tuition, don't rubber stamp federal loans while letting administrators increase costs.

Student debt is massive, yes, but why are so few people asking where that money actually went? A cursory search says student loan debt is roughly $1.6 trillion dollars and there are around 4,000 to 6,000 colleges/universities. This is a rough number and the actual amount depends on your criteria, but the gist is that you have a ton of money flowing into a relatively small pool. Yes, I know not every dollar of loans goes to the school, but I really have to beg the question on what these institutions have done with all this money.

Seems like any discussion about forgiving debt should involve going after some of these universities themselves.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#183

Post by zapdrive »

ohCh6zos wrote: post #122
juskrey wrote: post #6

How about giving back money to people who paid back their loans, possibly going through even greater difficulties to do that.

I ended up working 60 hour weeks to not take out student loans. People talk about having a good time at college but all I remember is getting up at 4am to go to my first job, doing class all day and working my second job until 10pm. No spring breaks and no summers or holidays because I could work those hours to stay out of debt. It is hard to have much sympathy for people asking for student loan forgiveness. On the p…

I agree. I also remember working Friday/Saturday nights in the lab (as that was the only time I got to work on my projects), while everybody went out clubbing.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#184

Post by krageon »

commandlinefan wrote: post #152
InitialBP wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…

> people who either have made bad decisions, had less fortunate circumstances than others, or a combination of both deserve to live under a mountain of debt for the rest of their life? - No Why does this logic only apply to people who made bad decisions and had less fortunate circumstances or a combination of both only apply to people who did so in the context of taking out student loans? If making bad decisions and…

Maybe it is, but it has to start somewhere. This is where it starts, what's the problem with that?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#185

Post by mywittyname »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #38
loourr wrote: post #12

It's crazy to cancel student loans and still keep issuing the exact same loans. If we believe the loans are unjust then the government should stop handing them out as the very first step.

> the government should stop handing them out Minor nit: The gov't doesn't give the loans, they underwrite & insure the loans.

I had plenty of loans from the DoE.

Getting the DoE into the student loan market was intentional and is seen as the first step to reworking the entire system. Navient et al are keen to keep the gravy train rolling.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#186

Post by throwaway894345 »

InitialBP wrote: post #94
throwaway894345 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also reimburse the people who sacrificed to pay theirs off or avoid them in the first place. I’d donate my reimbursement if they did, but of course they won’t.

Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…

Fine, then let's use a needs-based mechanism so that we don't exclude needy people who just didn't have the means to go to school in the first place or reward people like me who are doing fine but didn't pay off our loans because it's more lucrative to invest the money in the stock market. Student loan forgiveness isn't merely unjust, it's ineffective for antipoverty. Moreover, "tough luck, life ain't fair" is a great rationale for ignoring poverty and injustice altogether.

> One other thing people don't consider is that Most 18 year olds don't have a good grasp on money or what they want to do in general and in my hometown (poor county in WV) there was a TON of pressure to go to college if you didn't know what you want to do. Kids don't know better to not get into debt for a degree because everyone tells them not to worry about it. There is a serious problem with financial education in the US.

Agreed. I grew up working class in the midwest. The working class kids who went to college generally did fine because we worked and didn't live like we were earning 6 figures. The upper- and upper-middle-class kids were the ones who were getting Starbucks every day, living in dorms, paying for meal plans, going out to eat every other night, working fewer than 8 hours/week, skipping class, majoring in fine arts, etc and financing it all on debt (my wife is in the latter group and she has considerable loan debt that we're currently investing).

Student loan forgiveness will surely help some lower-class people, but by and large it's welfare for the middle and upper classes. It's regressive. https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/how-student-loan...

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#187

Post by ncallaway »

commandlinefan wrote: post #152
InitialBP wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…

> people who either have made bad decisions, had less fortunate circumstances than others, or a combination of both deserve to live under a mountain of debt for the rest of their life? - No Why does this logic only apply to people who made bad decisions and had less fortunate circumstances or a combination of both only apply to people who did so in the context of taking out student loans? If making bad decisions and…

Credit card debt, home loans, and auto loans are all far more dischargeable through bankruptcy than student loans.

Bad credit card debt won’t be an anchor around your neck financially until you die. Neither will a bad home loan. Neither will a bad auto loan.

But bad student will likely be with you until death.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#188

Post by IE6 »

moralestapia wrote: post #130

I could imagine there's a lot of people who: 1. Are paying/had paid their mortgage properly. Usually implies being down to earth and choosing a home you can actually afford. 2. Paid their student loans. 3. File and pay their taxes properly. 4. Have never went unemployed, or better yet, they're self-employed. 5. Never played stock market bets, as they're more conservative and prefer to save money in a predictable way…

If your post describes me can you explain to me in a way I would understand why I should feel really pissed off right now?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#189

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #152
InitialBP wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…

> people who either have made bad decisions, had less fortunate circumstances than others, or a combination of both deserve to live under a mountain of debt for the rest of their life? - No Why does this logic only apply to people who made bad decisions and had less fortunate circumstances or a combination of both only apply to people who did so in the context of taking out student loans? If making bad decisions and…

Because our public school system is a propaganda machine for getting students to go to college.

They tell high school students...people who are legally still children that the most important thing is to go to college. They tell them if they can't afford it, they can just get loans.

And now people are surprised and blame the kids when they do as their teachers told them and rack up 5 or sometimes even 6 figures of student loan debt before they're even old enough to drink.

Fucking stop and pause for a moment and really consider that. Counselors, teachers, and all other high school staff pushing kids to go to college, and then when they do, people come along and tell them it was a bad decision? What?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#190

Post by HeyImAlex »

nfRfqX5n wrote: post #133
leach wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s all fine and dandy until you realize the people who where smart and careful have to foot the bill for those who weren’t. I was smart and sacrificed a little by going to community college so I wouldn’t have debt. I was also smart enough to get a degree in stem where jobs are actually available and in demand. Why should I have to foot the bill for someone who just partied and got a useless degree? I did everythi…

How much do you really think this is taking out of your pocket? You are paying for others all the time with your taxes, which can’t be selective for the system to function

If the 1.6 trillion in debt was divided evenly among every human in the US it would be 4k. If we’re ball-parking and say that the top 20% of earners would foot the bill it’d be about 64k per household.
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