What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world? • Hacker News Board

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#181

Post by bryanrasmussen » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #54

trillic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a young woman in my high school and University class, she was a bit strange. Extremely bright beyond her years, sociable, and got along well with both the teachers and most of the students. There was always something a bit off with her though. From early high-school, as soon as “career” talk got more serious, she had only one job that she claimed she wanted to do, “Pediactric Oncology”. Some of the teachers…

Oh no, was a person "a bit strange"? Were they "a bit off"? Think of the children!!! It seems especially ugly to see that here on HN. I grew up as the "a bit strange" person in a small midwestern town. It sucked. it wasn't until I got the fuck out and got into tech that I got to be around other nerdy, non-neurotypical people like myself that I finally felt like I could breathe. If you have a complaint about somebody,…

well sure, but on the other hand you don't know anything about the person under discussion. They are essentially a small very vague figure from fiction given the level of specificity you have for her. They are not having their reputation besmirched or anything, because nobody knows who they are, and thus probably don't require a rousing defense.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#182

Post by pc86 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

jemfinch wrote: post #150

hn_neverguess wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. What would you define as the bottom of the barrel then? There has to be a sensible threshold that delineates between 1) "I encountered a lot of bad luck but I am motivated and want to get myself out of this situation and 2) I simply don't care. Most of the physically able that fall under 1) can get a job at an Amazon warehouse. For those in poor health, I will agree…

> You are approaching this subject as if living in an area where rents are $2500 is a right and not a privilege And you're approaching this subject as if Amazon warehouses are uniformly distributed throughout the country, such that median rents _matter_. They aren't, and they don't. Amazon warehouses are typically just outside of (or even within) population centers, where rents exceed median, often substantially. How…

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right an Amazon warehouses are nearly all located in areas where rents exceed the median by a meaningful amount. So what? Living right next to your employer is as much as right as anything discussed here. Ignore Amazon for a second. There are gas stations in areas like Malibu that have bad traffic and extremely expensive real estate. The people working there are obviously not living anywhere close, and I'm thinking they probably get paid less than Amazon warehouse workers in the same state (and have much worse, if any, benefits).

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#183

Post by pc86 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #166

jemfinch wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are approaching this subject as if living in an area where rents are $2500 is a right and not a privilege And you're approaching this subject as if Amazon warehouses are uniformly distributed throughout the country, such that median rents _matter_. They aren't, and they don't. Amazon warehouses are typically just outside of (or even within) population centers, where rents exceed median, often substantially. How…

edit: I just thought it might be fun to calculate and shared my calculation. Sorry it wasn't welcome but I'm outside of the delete window so I'll just remove the numbers and leave this apology.

You can't honestly believe this is a helpful comment.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#184

Post by baybal2 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

foogazi wrote: post #170

baybal2 wrote: post #3

For the interest of HN reader demographics: The salary of experienced assembly line worker in South China has passed that of USA's central states few years ago, just before the CoVID. For places like Bangladesh, Vietnam, and Pakistan, working in a factory is quite a dream job, and a ticket to the middle class living. People who poo on "sweatshops" in Asia hardly realise that these sweatshops are better than 90% of al…

> The salary of experienced assembly line worker in South China has passed that of USA's central states few years ago, just before the CoVID. What’s the salary for an experienced assembly line worker in US or China ?

No post body was provided.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#185

Post by hn_neverguess » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

3qz wrote: post #168

mrjangles wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

> Americans are just so rich they are out of touch with reality. It’s this one. As a Canadian, I can’t take anything they say seriously about their housing “crisis” or cost of living. Almost everything is more expensive in Canada and most jobs pay a lot less, but things are still not really that bad, so I know that the Americans just like to complain. The only way it’s possible for an American to struggle financially…

The irony here is that so many Americans will say "I'll move to Canada if things don't get better here." None of them have ever lived in Canada (or any other country), and just assume that things must be better elsewhere.

The Greatest Generation was exceptionally patriotic, and I always assumed it had to do with living in a country that suffered much less industrial damage in WWII than other countries (which enabled a great standard of living while everyone else was still rebuilding). But I am starting to wonder how much of this has to do with just simply having spent a couple of years abroad and getting to witness first-hand how dysfunctional most other places are (during and in-between wars).

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#186

Post by giantg2 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #152

giantg2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of LEOs or prosecutors, I think many give up the search for truth and give in to the us-vs-them mentality. The cognitive dissonance and pressure of group dynamics make it almost a certainty. There is huge power in law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion. Yes, some parts of the job have to be strict for safety purposes. There are many other parts that don't. I've had prosecutors and police know that o…

>> our rights were violated as part of a citation. >> unless there was substantial monetary damages I take it that this was not a criminal prosecution that might result in actual jail time. Was it a minor traffic offense? Part of the "thick skin" i mentioned above is a pragmatism re the "rights" of individuals in minor cases. Highschool teaches us that every trial is the same, that beyond-reasonable-doubt, perjury an…

"I take it that this was not a criminal prosecution that might result in actual jail time."

Criminal summary offense (dog off leash) which carries the possibility of up to 90 days in jail. Instead of charging the off leash offense, they wrote the charge for a dangerous dog. This incorrect charge carried with it pretrial restrictions only found under that charge (dog could not leave our property, etc).

"Part of the "thick skin" i mentioned above is a pragmatism re the "rights" of individuals in minor cases."

There is no such exception for ignoring rights simply because they feel it's pragmatic.

If they feel minor case isn't worth the effort to properly pursue, then it shouldn't be worth their time to pursue it at all. When you screw over enough people, there won't be any left to support the system.

"Give every drunk driving charge a full jury trial and the economy would stop as every able body would spend more time sitting in the jury box than working."

Um... they do have that right. The states fixed this, not by desecrating their rights, but by creating alternative and less severe programs like ARD.

"Impeach ever cop with less-than-perfect testimony in a traffic case and you won't have any cops left to testify in murder cases."

We aren't talking about less than perfect. We're talking about lies, or consistently making false claims (unreliable). For example, if the cop tells me he's going to amend the charge because he made a mistake 10 minutes before court, and then tells the judge he's amending it because he's cutting us a break... that's pretty egregious that he wants to hide his mistake to influence the court.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#187

Post by bruce343434 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

rnikander wrote: post #124

abxytg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

So rent a room and/or don’t live in the best part of the city. That’s what I did near Boston a few years ago. My rent was well under $1000. Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world?

Logical fallacy detected: false dichotomy

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#188

Post by robertlagrant » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

vasco wrote: post #68

woodruffw wrote: post #30

This was a great read. I think the true value of money is one of HN's biggest bubbles: the average person on here (but not all of us!) jumped right from their undergraduate career to making a six-figure salary in a city with lavish public amenities (by American standards). It's very easy to forget that the average American salary is less than half of that, and even that hides the number of people living well below th…

This is a public website, there's no security check for "Is american, went to Stanford and lives in SF pulling 100k/yr". I know plenty of software developers that frequent this site and make around 20-30k a year in Europe.

That salary seems very low, other than maybe for a junior. And even then - maybe. What sort of company pays that in 2022?

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#189

Post by Nasrudith » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

giardini wrote: post #111

alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

alexfromapex says >"...Healthcare, extremely high rent, and things like property tax where failure to pay sends you to prison are used as the means of coercion. If the United States continues on the current political course..." AFAIK you cannot be sent to prison for not paying property taxes in the USA.

You usually just get a lein on your property and a sherrif's sale once it builds up such that much. Foreclosure to sale is a lengthy process and at least some states maintain "right of redemption" which allow even a post auction foreclosure to be reversed within nine months.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#190

Post by Spivak » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

rnikander wrote: post #124

abxytg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

So rent a room and/or don’t live in the best part of the city. That’s what I did near Boston a few years ago. My rent was well under $1000. Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world?

If your job is in that city then yeah kinda.

Workers today are so entitled, demanding an entire studio apartment the audacity.