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Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

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Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#181

Post by aidenn0 »

gotaquestion wrote: post #150
lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

I thought the reboots were in order to retain property rights, and that with 2-3 years between reboots aimed at teens, there are a new batch of teens. So it seems like a win-win: renew property rights and lure in the new batch of teens.

That's specifically true only for Spiderman I think. Reportedly[1] Sony loses the rights if they go too long without producing a Spiderman film.

1: This is treated as fact in many places, but was very hard for me to source. The most definitive statement I could find was contemporary with the MGM/Sony dispute being resolved:

> The Marvel-Sony contract requires the studio to begin production of a Spider-Man feature quickly; the actual deadline could not be obtained. It also places Columbia on a short leash in scheduling sequels, requiring in some cases that financing for a sequel be arranged within months of the release of the previous feature[2].

2: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-mar-02-fi-13115...

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#182

Post by mordae »

lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

> People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything.

Weird, why would mass of people try to escape reality instead of watching more documentaries and getting inspired to change the world for better? This truly is a conundrum.

What could be the common denominator, causing the mental health crisis, mishandled epidemic, ecological crisis, political crisis and economical crisis all at the same time? Shouldn't we be all like seeing it like every day?

It surely wouldn't be something trivial. Like a constant stress from universal competition. /irony

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#184

Post by bombcar »

ghaff wrote: post #133
bombcar wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the whole point of reviews I feel - you get to know a reviewer and you can use their review to decide if you want to see it. They may absolutely hate the movie, but the way they hate it makes you know you'll enjoy it. "Review aggregators" have killed much of that I feel.

I assume there's also been a fairly dramatic falloff in professional reviewers given the state of newspapers. Not that people writing reviews as a hobby or as a twenty-something working for pennies for the "exposure" can't do a good job. But you're probably going to get a lot less consistency if nothing else.

True, back when newspapers were a "every city has one or two" there'd often be a local reviewer writing for that paper. Then it went to syndicated reviews and now I'm not sure I can even name a single reviewer.

Also, you have access to much more information about a movie if you want it, instead of having to figure out if you want to see a movie based on three inches of column.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#185

Post by stonemetal12 »

alan-hn wrote: post #165
gigaflop wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"These Days" in particular('Rona Season), I feel like a lot is/has been getting produced to keep up with increased demand. More people spending time indoors, means more people sitting on the couch looking for things to watch. From this, I think it's safe to assume that the lowest common denominator is growing fastest. Why put in original thought when you can use an internal plot-point checklist or AI/ML to guess at w…

Just as a tangent: let's start with the AI/ML produced movies already. I honestly think they would be hilarious

It is just a short but "Today is spaceship day" is weirdly hilarious.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#186

Post by cwkoss »

Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch.

User reviews are retrospective: how much did they actually enjoy watching the movie.

I think there has always been a fundamental disconnect, in that critics think the masses should be watching 'smarter', 'more artistic' or, less flatteringly, more pretentious movies.

The world has become a lot more political over the past couple decades. I wouldn't be surprised if critics are trying to be increasingly prescriptive, using their review to try to change the modern zeitgeist.

I think a very interesting graph would be so see to what extent critics prescriptions are accurately forward-looking to viewer attitudes.

More interesting further research could be:

For movies that came out before 2010 where the user rating diverged from critic rating by more than 10%, are user ratings which were rated after 2015 in the same direction as the critic's divergence? There are certainly movies that I enjoyed as a teenager, but cringe watching today: were critics at the time cringing in the same way, ahead of the masses? Or are critics just in a pretentious bubble that is not predictive of societal evolution?

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#187

Post by mamcx »

lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

I find weird how is always assumed the popular movies or shows are "for stupid" and "bland".

What has happened recently? Is that "popular" movies/shows ARE much better and in MORE quantity than before.

Just tackling the usual suspect (Marvel), it pretty clear that the bar is raised from the past.

And then, the "artsy" movie/show has a greater problem to be above the median, because the median is higher.

And to bot: the blockbusters of today is ALSO more fun!

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#188

Post by meinersbur »

duxup wrote: post #123

Just from a review reader perspective: I don't want critic scores to necessarily go hand in hand with audience scores. I have no idea what a given audience member wants. Random user reviews might rave that "Fast and Furious" speaks to the truth of the human condition, but I'm kinda skeptical and don't really know what that means coming from their perspective ... maybe question that person's life / film viewing experi…

If you found a professional critic that you understand that might be. Otherwise with a random critic's assessment I don't know more than an aggregated audience score. I guess the equivalent would be a weighted score preferring other users that have rated movies you both watched similar to you, as some sites do (such as moviepilot.de).

As the OP shows, horror movies are not for everybody and few professional critics seem to like them. If I like them, I think it's hard reading a reviewer's opinion who does not like them helps me finding out whether I like the newest horror flic. They most probably will not write about what a typical genre movie make good, but why they don't like time in general. An extreme example is https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/1/8687867/rock-band-4-preview

On the other side, a critic who likes movies such as https://youtu.be/uNg13Ju5HN8 is a sure sign for me to stay away from it ;-)

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#189

Post by Kranar »

yakak wrote: post #76
Kranar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I don't agree with you. I think my comment is a reasonable statement of the situation. Is it a 100% correct statement that is absolutely categorically true? No, but most people who are not looking to be pedantic and win an Internet argument won't go looking to nitpick the details of my statement. What most level headed people will do is understand that my statement is about how you can not reliably compare a group…

Sure, though I think the other implication from the difference stated is that critics have sampled randomly or more often and can therefore recognize derivative work where a target audience that shares a limited interest in film will almost uniformly perceive novelty. I think realizing something is a poor knock off is the basis of snobbery.. so it is strange not to accept that answer.

That's a very strong assumption to make, I could easily assume that most casual movie viewers watch the same derivative knock-off action/horror/comedy films over and over and over again without issue. You think Adam Sandler is the highest earning actor/producer because his audience perceives a great deal of depth novelty in his work?

The answer that requires the fewest assumptions and is consistent with almost all basic statistical analysis is that a group of people predisposed to like a movie will rate that movie higher than a group of people who watch movies regardless of their predisposition towards it.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#190

Post by quickthrower2 »

dabbledash wrote: post #180
lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

I think critics always value novelty more than the average person. It makes sense. They probably watch so many movies that anything derivative gets old fast. If I've seen the same trope ten times any critic has probably seen it a hundred times, and it's going to bother them in a way it doesn't bother me.

Maybe that is why they prescreen with the general public not critics (also GP will do it for free, for the movie ticket and the bragging rights)
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