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A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

military.com

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Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#181

Post by dahart »

sandworm101 wrote: post #4

>> It can take pilots up to 30 seconds to reorient themselves, a long time while behind the stick of a jet aircraft. Their is an old chopper pilot saying: the faster the aircraft the slower the pilot. You think 30 seconds is a long time in a fighter jet at 30,000 feet? Try 30 seconds when trying to land helicopter on the deck of a pitching ship. A 747 flies at basically the same speed as a fighter (~mach 0.8), in man…

> The time to make decisions is a function of how close you are to the ground, not how fast you are moving.

Why is that the conclusion of 747 vs F-16? Proximity to ground is a glaringly incomplete takeaway. Fighter jets are a-priori designed for quicker decision making, not primarily because of the ground, but primarily because they’re built for fighting other fighter jets. Proximity to other jets can happen at 30k feet. Fighter jets are built to withstand a much higher limit load than 747s - at least 2x higher G forces; the fighter jet was designed for faster turns. Everything about the fighter jet is intended for faster decision making and everything about the 747 and it’s flight procedures is designed to be as boring (safe) as possible.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#182

Post by IX-103 »

robbiep wrote: post #145
throwawayboise wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

737MAX would not have crashed if it were being flown autonomously, as the entire MCAS system would have been unnecessary. It was there to meet regulations regarding control feel for human pilots.

No, it still would have crashed, because it only was taking angle of attack from one sensor, and so would have been under the erroneous belief that it was stalling

No it would not have crashed because it wouldn't have the run-away trim problem that prevented pilot recovery from the "stall". Trim is something that is only really needed for humans who hold onto sticks to fly.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#183

Post by kcplate »

2143 wrote: post #177
kcplate wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back about 20 years ago a buddy was showing me his new airplane. Damn avionics ran on Windows NT. I told him he’d never ever get me up on that thing.

> Damn avionics ran on Windows NT OMG. I thought for things where human lives are acutely at stake they audit every single line of code. I mean, Windows has a known history of crashes and freezes and things like that. I'd trust some kind of unix (BSD) a lot more than NT. Tangential: For many non-consumer applications, I see plenty of situations where you'd think a Unix variant (or even bare metal electronics) would b…

Yeah, I wasn’t too keen on the notion of being a couple thousand feet in the air watching the pilot having to bounce their avionics software.

Or…asking me to troubleshoot the damn thing since I had a Windows NT MCP at that time.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#184

Post by gentryb »

blakesmith wrote: post #47
cdot2 wrote: post #5

"In 1974, the future Dr. Rupert was skydiving naked while he was a student at the University of Illinois. He noticed that the rush of air on so much bare skin kept him oriented, even as he spun and twirled in midair." Where do you sign up for naked skydiving?

It's usually tradition that your 100th jump is supposed to be naked, at least amongst the skydiving communities I was a part of.

Can confirm - did once for my 100th jump, and once on a birthday. Nothing quite like naked skydiving.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#185

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

camtarn wrote: post #174
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick google search says muscles are the primary receptors in humans, before it was believed the joints played that role. From my experience with anesthesia I reckon it's a little bit of everything, with the sensation of different organs being weighed differently in the final estimation. Unless you're in a vacuum as suggested in another comment I don't think you could draw definitive conclusions on the role of the…

I think that linking skin sensations to proprioception is pretty dubious. Think about walking in a high gale. The air will be pressing your outer layers to your body in a way that adds extra 'weight', but there's not even the slightest sensation of phantom movement in your limbs. Maybe it's a very low-weighted input, but I very much doubt proprioception is 'heavily based' on it as you said earlier.

You don't get phantom movements when you get a deep tissue massage yet the muscles are very much involved. There is also literature on the role of the skin in proprioception in humans. That being said, heavily might be overstated, I wasn't trying to claim an authoritative view on the matter, only reporting what I felt while anesthesia was wearing off.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#186

Post by magicalhippo »

skykooler wrote: post #60
pugworthy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've defined it via the general mismatch in a good way. Sea sickness is your eyes saying, "I'm not moving", but your inner ear saying, "Oh yes we are". VR sickness is your eyes saying, "We are moving" and your inner ear saying, "No we're not"

I wonder whether having something to blow air on you in particular directions as you move in VR might help with that, then?

That shouldn't be too hard to try out. A few fans controlled by the motion in the game. Sounds worth a shot.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#187

Post by 2143 »

kcplate wrote: post #183
2143 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Damn avionics ran on Windows NT OMG. I thought for things where human lives are acutely at stake they audit every single line of code. I mean, Windows has a known history of crashes and freezes and things like that. I'd trust some kind of unix (BSD) a lot more than NT. Tangential: For many non-consumer applications, I see plenty of situations where you'd think a Unix variant (or even bare metal electronics) would b…

Yeah, I wasn’t too keen on the notion of being a couple thousand feet in the air watching the pilot having to bounce their avionics software. Or…asking me to troubleshoot the damn thing since I had a Windows NT MCP at that time.

"Is there a software engineer on board?"

(similar to "is there a doctor on board?")

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#188

Post by baq »

nix23 wrote: post #172
baq wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They kill people piloting bombers carrying bombs, potentially nuclear, again potentially aimed at cities... sometimes you have to pick the lesser evil.

Your stuck in the 60's.

Might I suggest you watch some videos from Ukraine dated 2022. Granted Su-25 does not carry nuclear weapons, but there are examples of rather dramatically “successful” bombing runs in the Mariupol theater of operations.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#189

Post by nkurz »

ncmncm wrote: post #43
bee_rider wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that always the case? I suspect the hallucinogens that people have selected to intentionally trip on are a bit unusual (intentional dose sizes, presumably they are selected to get the person tripping in some particular timeframe, right? I'm obviously showing some ignorance on this topic).

This would have evolved in our rodent ancestors. They would have nibbled a bit of anything they came across that seemed like it might possibly be food. Oddly, I gather rats cannot barf, which is why coumarin works as rat killer.

> Oddly, I gather rats cannot barf, which is why coumarin works as rat killer.

I think your recollection is off by a little. Coumarin is an anticoagulant and damages rats' livers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin

You might be thinking of corn gluten meal, which kills rats by preventing them from absorbing water? It's sold as RatX: https://www.ecoclearproducts.com/pages/ratx-faqs

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#190

Post by snypher »

smokey_circles wrote: post #118
throwawayboise wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

737MAX would not have crashed if it were being flown autonomously, as the entire MCAS system would have been unnecessary. It was there to meet regulations regarding control feel for human pilots.

MCAS only exists as a bandaid to a terrible idea. They should've built a new aircraft, not strap bigger engines into a 40ish year old frame. If MCAS _actually_ worked, you and I wouldn't even know about it. But as tribute to how poorly it was designed and delivered, we know about MCAS because it killed over 300 people. Just an absurd point you're making. Airbus are an engineering firm, so they are doing clever engine…

Wasn't it the airlines who pressured the manufacturer to avoid the need for recertification of pilots? I think if Boeing had a choice MCAS would have never been needed?
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