Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 424 posts

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#181

Post by recuter »

nix23 wrote: post #148
recuter wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear Power - Bad from inside Switzerland, Okie Dokie from France. Their reactor in Bugey is like 200km from the one you're shutting down early. Man.. it would sure be funny if France elected some eccentric far right character for additional excitement.

>Okie Dokie for France. Yes why not? They take the risk, we pay them for. >eccentric far right character for additional excitement. Is the far right not happy making money?

Your plan is to sit in the dark while the radiation drifts across the imaginary line that is your border? Well, at least you're honest. Here I thought we were concerned about going green and the planet and such.

> Is the far right not happy making money?

You know Mr Putin could have just stayed on the throne collecting hundreds of billions a year doing nothing. Nord Stream 2 was weeks away from being flipped on, this was boom times for Russia.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#182

Post by maratc »

zmgsabst wrote: post #169
maratc wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also has contracts with Gazprom in Russia with guaranteed Prices and Deliveries. Is anyone under an illusion that Gazprom in Russia will honor these contracts, now that their branch was seized? And if not, what methods are there to enforce these contracts? The Russians seized the planes, which can fly but need spares and checks. The Germans seized the pipelines and the storage. Both have some utility in the inte…

“We seized your property under exigent circumstances, but you better honor your contracts rather than cancel them under exigent circumstances!” - NATO, apparently delusional The idea people will “honor” contracts while you’re (illegally) seizing their property in effort to enact an economic siege of their nation is mental illness — either delusions or megalomania. That strategy doesn’t make sense. I’m personally sad…

NATO has nothing to do with buying or selling gas.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#183

Post by depr »

rgmarker wrote: post #121
martimarkov wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you forget that Ukraine has the right of agency and has the right to choose to join a defensive union. I'm also finding it hard to get any concrete examples of offensive actions by NATO. So far every single one seems to be okay with Russia (given they didn't veto it in the UN security council).

Suppose the following reversed situation: - There is still a Warsaw Pact. - An Orange Revolution happens in Canada in 2014, backed by KGB neocon equivalents of Nuland/Graham. - A Russia friendly regime is installed in Canada in 2014. - Canada has regions with large U.S. populations. - Canada keeps pushing for Warsaw Pact membership. - At a security conference in Munich in 2022, Canada's Russia friendly prime minister…

These kinds of comments are a waste of time, some people are simply only capable of seeing their side as the good guys, and/or everything that happens as mono-causal.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#184

Post by ZeroGravitas »

jaywalk wrote: post #124
nbadg wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expand on this: much of the distribution infrastructure within Germany is owned by Gazprom. For example, there's a very large natural gas storage capacity within Germany, but a significant portion of that is owned by, you guessed it, Gazprom. There's broad consensus that, if all of the storage infrastructure were topped up, Germany would be able to make it through _next_ winter reasonably well, even if Russia stop…

> yet another strong indication that the invasion was a deliberate Russian aggression planned well in advance. Are there people out there who have doubts about this? Regardless of any opinions on the rationale behind it, it's very clearly something that was planned in advance. I didn't think that was something that was up for debate.

I dont know whether they believe it but I'm fairly sure I've seen people on HN claim that something or other that President Biden did a day or two before the invasion forced Russia to act.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#185

Post by spyder »

diskapital wrote: post #122
beberlei wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gazprom attenpted to change owners and default the company. In that case the gas contracts would have been void including its negotiated prices (under currebt market value) and the currency in euro instead of rubbels.

> Gazprom attenpted to change owners and default the company. Is that illegal? I wonder about rule of law. We talk about this as sacrosanct here in the "West". It is funny that when push comes to shove (in my perception at least), we're quick to break the rules to get the outcome we want. When say a 3rd world country does something like this in response to a "Western" multinational's actions (perhaps a controversial…

"Is that illegal?"

"The German economy ministry said Gazprom Germania violated foreign trade law."

"Germany's economy ministry justified the takeover by saying it had not granted permission for the Gazprom Germania acquisition. Permission is required, the ministry said, if the investors are not from the European Union and "critical infrastructure" is involved."

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#186

Post by archerx »

nix23 wrote: post #119
archerx wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>'and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?' Yes.

But we can import it from france and we have hydro, why even care about the nuclear-waste and all the negative sides of it. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-get-75--of-power-from-ren...

Why should we be dependent on France? Nuclear waste is a boogie man to scare hippies at night, almost 96% of fuel rods can be recycled and fuel rods have a life cycle of 5-10 years while not needing that many to run a reactor. We could be researching and investing in modern nuclear tech that solve these problems until fusion is viable. Also with petrol there was a lot of waste but we learned to process it and turn it into a valuable resource, maybe the same could happen for nuclear.

Hydro while interesting it is awful for the environment.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#187

Post by throwaway4good »

ptero wrote: post #71
throwaway4good wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what is left of value in this company; except some payrolls, offices, and some contracts which are void anyway?

Pipelines (which I would not underestimate) and storage?

Great pipelines; only problem is that they go to Russia ...

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#188

Post by baq »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #146
baq wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

makes you think if Green Party is also financed by Russia...

Greens are not financed by Russia, this is publicly available information. Neither they did anything that could look like a support of Russian agenda.

anti-nuclear is pro-fossil. I'm saying that russian psy-ops organize both sides of protesting factions in e.g. Qanon, yellow vests in France, etc. - why wouldn't they covertly finance anti-nuclear if they overtly finance pro-fossil? Greens are pro-environment, but don't offer substitute energy sources (because it isn't possible to offer them, a different discussion) - exactly the kind of turmoil Russia thrives in. but then, maybe the FSB's just lucky here.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#189

Post by gumby »

riidom wrote: post #145
diskapital wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gazprom attenpted to change owners and default the company. Is that illegal? I wonder about rule of law. We talk about this as sacrosanct here in the "West". It is funny that when push comes to shove (in my perception at least), we're quick to break the rules to get the outcome we want. When say a 3rd world country does something like this in response to a "Western" multinational's actions (perhaps a controversial…

That's correct, it depends a lot on the perspective. We justify this because it's critical infrastructure, which is a good enough reason to me, but if a 3rd world country would argue with critical infrastructure, the narrative in western countries would be very different (assuming it would lead to some conflict of interests - otherwise, sure fine!). We definitely need to get rid of our double standards. All complaint…

Well, Germany is at (economic) war with Russia so the “rules” are different.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#190

Post by op00to »

tedivm wrote: post #176
tazjin wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read, the contracts between Gazprom Germany and Gazprom Export (on the Russian side) do not have a fixed settlement currency. > This would have allowed them to require payments in Rubles instead of Euros "allowed" is a funny word - this situation is way past a point where cross-border contracts on either side hold any legal value. How are you going to hold anyone accountable for breach of contract?

Can you back that up with a source? It's the opposite of what basically everyone has been saying and I can't find anything that even hints that there isn't a fixed settlement currency in their contracts. Russia has been trying to push this issue for weeks, while Germany and others are refusing to pay in anything but euros.

[flagged]
Post reply on HN