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Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

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Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#181

Post by bryans »

phphphphp wrote: post #177
bryans wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to twist this into a scenario of absolutes, as if there's an on/off switch at which point independent artists make 100% of the money and labels don't exist anymore. That's clearly not what I said, and it's rather inflammatory of you to suggest that it is.

You said "record labels are rapidly becoming irrelevant" and "the jig is up and labels are going to be panicking". That's about as absolute as you can be. I contend that labels and independents will continue to co-exist, as they have done for many years, despite people proclaiming otherwise (to varying extremes).

"Irrelevant" and "non-existent" are two completely different concepts, and neither of those quoted phrases are even remotely absolutes. Unless you have an actual point to make based on actual knowledge of the subject at hand, please stop with your false pedantry. It's entirely unwelcome and not adding anything to the conversation.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#182

Post by tessierashpool »

Jensson wrote: post #130
scarecrowbob wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't really match up with the b-list regional folks I've gigged with. As far as I can tell, the big goal for the folks who were 25 in 1978 was to get an album on with large distribution and make basically mailbox money for the rest of a career. I've known people who have done that basically on a couple songs. Like, pretty middle of the road folks I've met were able to make a living off their mailbox. That wil…

Sounds like they won the lottery by getting perpetual visibility on poorly made albums thanks to how poorly optimized discovery and publishing was back then. Wont ever happen again with how much better those processes are today. Also doesn't sound like that old system actually was good for the music industry, it made a few lucky people a lot of money even if they didn't produce good music, which encourages people to…

sorry, but this is all types of wrong:

> Sounds like they won the lottery by getting perpetual visibility on poorly made albums thanks to how poorly optimized discovery and publishing was back then. Wont ever happen again with how much better those processes are today.

first: better for whom? optimized for what, in particular? Spotify is better optimized for funnelling the money that artists earn towards Joe Rogan than any other system in human history. but that's not an absolute good; that's optimization for a particular purpose.

second, it's wrong because the lottery those folks won was not a discovery or publishing lottery. I'm not even sure how (or why) you think the publishing side of the music industry is any different than it was in 1978; maybe you're not using "publishing" the way the industry uses it. but discovery wasn't a problem back when it was incredibly expensive to record music in the first place. that change has nothing to do with Spotify or streaming or anything like that; it happened because digital recording technology (mostly) replaced analog recording technology, and each type of recording tech got commoditized, i.e., smaller and cheaper. that had to happen for a discovery problem to even exist; in 1978, recording studios were almost industrial machinery.

I guess that's just two types of wrong, maybe three depending on what you're trying to say with the word "publishing" there.

on the bright side, this is legit:

> doesn't sound like that old system actually was good for the music industry

that's pretty true. but you can say about it about the modern equivalent also.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#183

Post by tessierashpool »

eikenberry wrote: post #17
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Listen to any smaller artist and they'll tell you streaming services are only good for exposure and the real money is in ticket sales, swag, and physical and digital sales to buying customers.

This is still a major win for smaller artists though as exposure is the main thing they are missing. Pre-streaming/internet they would have only had local scene, fan clubs, etc. They always made all their money via fans buying things. All performing musicians (as opposed to studio musicians) make the majority of their money this way, the recording industry was always primarily a way to get promoted, it was never a go…

> it was never a good way to make money.

sorry, this is false; there was a big chunk of the 20th century were selling recordings was very lucrative.

even today, there are still a few people both big and small making money that way.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#184

Post by [deleted] »

bryans wrote: post #15

The self-congratulatory nature of the article and quotes actually betray a self-reassurance, because in reality, record labels are rapidly becoming irrelevant. They're scrambling to figure out how they fit into the TikTok era, where artists no longer require years of financial incubation to succeed. The music industry is growing because independent musicians are finally figuring out how to navigate it without any nee…

[deleted]

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#185

Post by skinnymuch »

bryans wrote: post #137
skinnymuch wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by pirates? RIAA is suing the distributors and creators of pirated content. They are not suing individual pirates much at all. You said “to this day…left and right” which indicates your average person as that was the most know thing they were doing before in the 00s. That’s not true any more.[0] 0. https://jolt.richmond.edu/2018/03/15/has-the-riaa-given-up-o...

In what universe are the "distributors and creators of pirated content" not pirates? You are being pedantic to an extreme, while still being entirely wrong in the process. This is the third time that you've responded to one of my comments with personal theories and ideologies, but with no apparent knowledge of the subject at hand, all in an attempt to "prove me wrong" about something that you can't actually articulat…

I don’t read usernames. Now I will. I guess I’ll have to ignore all your posts since you’re speaking emotionally. If I responded with disagreement that was likely coincidence seeing repeated arguments.

Many people disagreed with you skimming the thread again. Seeing what I replied to from you. Your posts are fully personal ideologies. Your POV comes from you as one person and assume your pov is obviously correct.

> are the "distributors and creators of pirated content" not pirates? You are being pedantic to an extreme, while still being entirely wrong in the process.

I pointed all this out in my post. Your writing implied that. I specifically said there’s a way those words are thought of to the general person. You using it the way you did was deceptive and biased.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#187

Post by hef19898 »

bryans wrote: post #179
hef19898 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious question, if streaming services reach the point where they enable indy artists to actually become super stars (using TikTok for marketing), doesn't that move the role, and power, from label to those streaming services and social media (for marketing)?

No, because the label never had that power to begin with. They were always at the whim of social media and other factors. The trick is to not dedicate yourself to one platform, because they should all be treated as separate venues with different types of audiences (because they are). Social media sites are tools, not goals.

Thanks for the answer!

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#188

Post by phphphphp »

bryans wrote: post #181
phphphphp wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said "record labels are rapidly becoming irrelevant" and "the jig is up and labels are going to be panicking". That's about as absolute as you can be. I contend that labels and independents will continue to co-exist, as they have done for many years, despite people proclaiming otherwise (to varying extremes).

"Irrelevant" and "non-existent" are two completely different concepts, and neither of those quoted phrases are even remotely absolutes. Unless you have an actual point to make based on actual knowledge of the subject at hand, please stop with your false pedantry. It's entirely unwelcome and not adding anything to the conversation.

Music labels are in the business of cultural relevancy, a label does not make money if they're not relevant, certainly Warner, UMG, Sony etc. wouldn't be generating multi-billions of revenue each year if they were not relevant.

I have a point, I am not being pedantic. The message of your post, or at least, the message I took away from your post, was that the tides are turning against labels and independent musicians are the future...

...but that's been the claim made for at least the last decade, and it's proven again and again to be untrue. Yes, independent artists can reach huge levels of success without a label, and certainly it's becoming easier and easier to achieve success without a label, however, that doesn't have any logical through line to music labels becoming irrelevant.

Artists like Macklemore are great examples of independent artists who reached great success but still chose to work with labels, because labels provide value. Likewise, there are many successful independent artists who sign with major labels, even some of the artists people pointed to as independent examples in this thread have gone on to sign with labels.

I will happily make a bet with you, and you can choose the metric: in 5 years, major record labels will be doing better than they are today. My metric of choice would be total revenue as measured by the IFPI, but I'm open to other metrics if you think total revenue as measured by the IFPI isn't a fair representation.

Although I don't work in the music industry, I have participated in this discussion many times over the years, including conversations with major label artists. Historically, record labels were gatekeepers and it's fantastic to see the shifts in consumer habits that have enabled independent artists to succeed, I would not dispute that for one second, and I will happily celebrate it alongside you, but the last decade has disproven the anti-label thesis again and again. Labels and independents will co-exist, they will grow together.

If your comment was focused entirely on the success of independents, I wouldn't have had anything to say. I would have just given an upvote, because I agree wholeheartedly.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#189

Post by CharlesW »

mikepurvis wrote: post #171
CharlesW wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tessa Violet is example of an artist who has blown up on TikTok and I believe has parlay that into real world success in terms of shows, merch, etc. I've not heard of the others, but Tessa is on a label, T∆G Music, which has a global distribution deal with a subsidiary of Sony. She launched her career on the Make Music label as well.

I stand corrected!

There's still great examples out there but I wonder if they're "exceptions that prove the rule". I think Chance The Rapper is still independent?

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#190

Post by b20000 »

bryans wrote: post #37
basisword wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence of this? People have been saying labels are irrelevant for a decade or two at least now. It's never true. To succeed you need to get noticed and for that you need a marketing budget and the labels provide that. Artists can get much further than before but going viral on TikTok is not a viable career strategy for most artists.

Yes, I have tons of evidence for this, and for why all of your claims have no foundation. Allow me to provide one example of the hundreds that I personally know of or worked with (which is a tiny fraction of the numbers finding success independently). In late 2020, a band called Sub-Radio had a couple thousand followers on each social media platform and around ~15k monthly listeners on Spotify, and this was after man…

marketing is not free and “it just went viral” is bullshit. yes, the internet is available to anyone. buying visibility is not though. that is the main problem for anyone who creates anything, and not something you can solve by working hard.
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