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Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

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Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#181

Post by a9h74j »

chadlavi wrote: post #165
ilamont wrote: post #5

When designing medium to large sized menu navigations on the mobile web the default go-to, for some time now, has been hamburger menus. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing Tell it to the many people who have no idea what it means on a mobile device, or increasingly on desktop websites. I've said it many times before, but it's worth repeating: Most people are frustrated by modern information tools. According to a 2015…

This is a good point for all of us to remember, but to take it further: folk who don't understand hamburger menus aren't likely to understand that they can horizontally scroll to see more of these sausage links either. If you really really want to make sure everyone knows how it works, just make it a real-deal list of links.

At the very least, when horizontal scrolling isn't the more common use to drag a map with a "hand" pointer? In that case there is a natural mapping without any need to grab a (thin) scrollbar, if there even is one.

On mobile, with such a drag operation, I suppose one could place a finger between menu items so as to not select anything while dragging.

Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#182

Post by thaumasiotes »

jstummbillig wrote: post #134
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like the sausage link concept because it clearly labels options with text. 100%. I'm kinda surprised how the 3 lines hamburger menu got so prevalent in the first place, because it always user tests poorly. My guess is that when flat minimalism (my favorite shitty example of this is when Android expected everyone to know what a flat square, circle and triangle are supposed to mean) was the rage, even though user t…

The hamburger menu on the web is what the touch screen are for cars. You can fit anything on there, no matter what the future might hold. No need to think about your content too hard. And in fact the designer is really not supposed to think about the content too hard. It's not how we do web. This is how we do: There's a CMS and you can add and remove items. How many? As many as the client later discovers they want. I…

> The hamburger menu on the web is what the touch screen are for cars.

I thought this was a brilliant analogy. But you don't seem to have meant it.

> Like with touch screens in cars, we get something for what we give and it might just be the best we can reasonably do given constraints.

Touchscreens in cars are a huge step back from what we had in the 80s. They're far more despised than the hamburger menu. Complaints about the hamburger menu generally take a tone of disgruntled resignation. Complaints about car touchscreens are burning outrage.

There is no way touchscreens in cars can be the best we can do given constraints, because they're much worse than what they replaced.

Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#183

Post by mgkimsal »

TuringTest wrote: post #115
Izkata wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original symbol represented a menu that pops up from the bottom of the screen, as they worked in the early Android versions: https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/06c3657d29dbfaf9cc921d2690... The three-lines version was an evolution of that, just chopping off the sides to go extra minimal, and happened very quickly. And nowadays we have an even more minimal one, shortening the three lines to three dots.

At least the three dots look like the ellipsis, which has a standard meaning of "there's even more..." At the end of a list of other menu entries, there's a chance that it can be inferred to mean "let's me see some more".

I take the 3 lines to mean "click/press here for a list of something". Perhaps because people called it a hamburger, that created some extra mental friction, contributing to the confusion/hate?

Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#184

Post by layer8 »

weikju wrote: post #162
layer8 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it’s because that literally just deletes the application file/directory, there’s no hook for application-specific uninstall routines.

there kindof are, though it's very inconsistent. For example, yesterday I installed the AdGuard app, which adds a proxy and some Extensions.. When I finally realized I didn't need it and it was a paid service, and I really just needed the free AdGuard DNS, I dragged the icon to the trash.... And that also prompted me to confirm that it would delete the proxy and the Extensions that were installed. I remember a few mo…

> And that also prompted me to confirm that it would delete the proxy and the Extensions that were installed.

I would be interested if someone could point me to the mechanism used for that (triggering application-specific uninstall logic upon dragging the application to the trash).

Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#185

Post by antifa »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #67
ilamont wrote: post #5

When designing medium to large sized menu navigations on the mobile web the default go-to, for some time now, has been hamburger menus. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing Tell it to the many people who have no idea what it means on a mobile device, or increasingly on desktop websites. I've said it many times before, but it's worth repeating: Most people are frustrated by modern information tools. According to a 2015…

> I like the sausage link concept because it clearly labels options with text. 100%. I'm kinda surprised how the 3 lines hamburger menu got so prevalent in the first place, because it always user tests poorly. My guess is that when flat minimalism (my favorite shitty example of this is when Android expected everyone to know what a flat square, circle and triangle are supposed to mean) was the rage, even though user t…

> flat square, circle and triangle

Funny enough, I had 2 android devices that had differences of opinion on what order these should be in.

Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#186

Post by prawn »

jayd16 wrote: post #96
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like the sausage link concept because it clearly labels options with text. 100%. I'm kinda surprised how the 3 lines hamburger menu got so prevalent in the first place, because it always user tests poorly. My guess is that when flat minimalism (my favorite shitty example of this is when Android expected everyone to know what a flat square, circle and triangle are supposed to mean) was the rage, even though user t…

Designers like the hamburger because it lets them sweep anything they haven't considered under the rug. They're simple so no one attempts to cram in carousels or videos or what have you, so its the easiest way to add functionality into an app that doesn't have any other thought put into expanding the navigation. So in that sense they're highly productive.

I design and I don't like them, but clients insist on them against my advice over and over. Clients routinely take informative sites and want to pare it back to minimal information, because they don't like having to write text or maintain anything. Or hide navigation because it feels like cleaning up. You'd be amazed at the ridiculous things they insist on even when there is logical or industry best/decent-practice suggesting otherwise. It's very frustrating.

Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#187

Post by jstummbillig »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #182
jstummbillig wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hamburger menu on the web is what the touch screen are for cars. You can fit anything on there, no matter what the future might hold. No need to think about your content too hard. And in fact the designer is really not supposed to think about the content too hard. It's not how we do web. This is how we do: There's a CMS and you can add and remove items. How many? As many as the client later discovers they want. I…

> The hamburger menu on the web is what the touch screen are for cars. I thought this was a brilliant analogy. But you don't seem to have meant it. > Like with touch screens in cars, we get something for what we give and it might just be the best we can reasonably do given constraints. Touchscreens in cars are a huge step back from what we had in the 80s. They're far more despised than the hamburger menu. Complaints…

> There is no way touchscreens in cars can be the best we can do given constraints, because they're much worse than what they replaced.

It is not about how poorly touchscreens perform against what they replace, but what they enable: A continuously developed car, built around software (updates).

Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#189

Post by badestrand »

felix318 wrote: post #106
brimble wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent years thinking they [EDIT: Apple's always-top-of-screen application menus, that is] were dumb for that reason. It never occurred to me that major software vendors would be stupid and/or user-hating enough to ditch the standard top menu, when they have a whole bunch of stuff that should go in it.

I seem to recall Steve Jobs saying the reason the menu is at the top of the screen is that it's easier to hit it with the mouse, you just push it all the way up. I think it's a valid point.

At the same time they don't utilize the 4 most easy to reach points of the screen, the corners. Windows always used those for essential interactions so the interface was really fast to use: for the start menu just throw your mouse to the bottom left corner; to close the window throw your mouse to the top right corner; to show your desktop throw to to bottom right; not sure anymore about the other corner as I am on Mac for a while already. Since switching to Mac I am always thinking about how stupid the interface is for disregarding important user-friendly details like these.

Re: Using hamburger menus? Try sausage links (2019)

#190

Post by bertjk »

jstummbillig wrote: post #187
thaumasiotes wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hamburger menu on the web is what the touch screen are for cars. I thought this was a brilliant analogy. But you don't seem to have meant it. > Like with touch screens in cars, we get something for what we give and it might just be the best we can reasonably do given constraints. Touchscreens in cars are a huge step back from what we had in the 80s. They're far more despised than the hamburger menu. Complaints…

> There is no way touchscreens in cars can be the best we can do given constraints, because they're much worse than what they replaced. It is not about how poorly touchscreens perform against what they replace, but what they enable: A continuously developed car, built around software (updates).

I personally prefer the cars I buy to be in a finished state.

It pains me to even wonder what sort of "refreshed" UX paradigms each software update might decide to introduce.

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