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Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

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Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#181

Post by scotty79 »

throwaway3b03 wrote: post #159
scotty79 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in Russians living abroad majority might oppose Putin or at least want nothing to do with him. I imagine hating Putin and the country he created might be one of the more common reasons of living abroad.

I have Russian work colleagues in a western European country. While they don't support Putin (at least not overtly) and don't like the level of power he has acquired, they seem to have an ingrained distrust of the "west", even though the "west" gave them permanent residence, social security, a means of living. They somehow still believe Putin's propaganda, claiming that they're not sure if bioweapons or labs really w…

I guess it's hard to shake off yhe brainwashing. Especially since fo younger people it was throughout their whole lives.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#182

Post by older »

throwaway290 wrote: post #175
older wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any examples when this actually happened?

Are you questioning whether European countries grant asylum/refuge on the basis of sexuality/gender identity, if those are persecuted in applicant's home country? That is indeed a thing, a quick search away to confirm…

Not just any home country. I'm questioning that this ever happened to some person from Russia (except maybe Chechnya). Even so situation with human rights is bad, it is far from Taliban bad.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#183

Post by older »

throwaway290 wrote: post #174
older wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of Ukrainians weren't feeling safe since at least 2014. But it doesn't give grounds for asking for asylum. So to be "afraid to participate in protests because of fear of persecution" is not enough to claim refugee status.

There were hundreds of thousands of refugees from Ukraine in preceding years. Where are you getting your data?

I'm getting my data from Eurostat. There were fewer asylum applications from Ukraine than from Russia. Rejection rates for both countries were very high. And definitely not even close to the number you're suggesting. Especially if we're counting those who've got refugee status and not just applications.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#184

Post by goldfeld »

Etheryte wrote: post #137
goldfeld wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to go off on a tangent, but the modern americanisms and other figuratives of english perpetually amuse me. First because people get so used to internet-powered mannerisms that even professional writers feel compelled to use contorted turns of phrase even when it would be easier to just employ an old (tired?) verb, adverb or something. The poor verbs suffer from ageism too and are going jobless! Honestly I f…

That's a fair point, I think as a non-native speaker I don't always notice these separate-yet-linked connotations, and pointing them out definitely helps in that regard. What would be a better way to get the same idea across?

As the other user replied, only a few people who will read between languages/uses will pick up the nuance or irony, which however was not at all meant by you, that is, you didn't play with multiple meanings but just the "hackerism" at face value, no biggie. I'm possibly just lonely in being tired of hackerspeak or somesuch, and it's on me, with being jaded about english with its context in general as I go to other languages (english not my mother tongue either.)

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#185

Post by throwaway290 »

older wrote: post #183
throwaway290 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were hundreds of thousands of refugees from Ukraine in preceding years. Where are you getting your data?

I'm getting my data from Eurostat. There were fewer asylum applications from Ukraine than from Russia. Rejection rates for both countries were very high. And definitely not even close to the number you're suggesting. Especially if we're counting those who've got refugee status and not just applications.

There are, if you count Ukrainian refugees granted temporary asylum in Russia (somewhat ironically).

To elsewhere in the world, not all are legal refugees. De-facto refugees from Ukraine and Russia could leave in preceding years and did so legally. Many would be disinclined to go back since the likelihood of death or imprisonment has risen dramatically. They would be renewing their passports via embassies while working towards obtaining long-term resident status in meantime. The easiest way of obtaining that status may or may not be by asking for asylum, but regardless if you insist that guaranteed by law political persecution is not grounds for becoming a refugee I am not taking that seriously until you provide proof that reality contradicts the dictionary definition of the word.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#186

Post by throwaway290 »

older wrote: post #182
throwaway290 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you questioning whether European countries grant asylum/refuge on the basis of sexuality/gender identity, if those are persecuted in applicant's home country? That is indeed a thing, a quick search away to confirm…

Not just any home country. I'm questioning that this ever happened to some person from Russia (except maybe Chechnya). Even so situation with human rights is bad, it is far from Taliban bad.

Have you searched? I just googled up some stories of LGBT refugees from Russia who gained asylum in Germany.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#187

Post by BrBone »

trhway wrote: post #62
alecco wrote: post #13

I would like to see safe haven for Russians who oppose Putin. Currently there is growing Euro hate to all Russians. There was a news segment about a Russian expat who's been campaigning abroad against the regime for over 10 years and now she gets insulted by random people. This was somewhere in Spain but could as well be any other country. They are desperately fleeing the regime to avoid being arrested. Others lost t…

>Currently there is growing Euro hate to all Russians. there are a lot of reasons for that. There is really something non-human in Russians attacking Ukrainians. Even for me, a Russian well familiar with history and overall situation there, it is still hard to believe that Russians so easily went into that war. That makes anybody naturally question their existing perception of what Russians really is, and that is whe…

Russians have been cut off from an alternative view of the situation: ALL opposition media have been blocked on the Internet and their broadcasting licenses have been revoked. Only propaganda media with the position that

1. There is no war, there is a special operation. 2. The special operation is carried out to help eliminate the Nazis in Donbass, who tortured eastern Ukrainians for 8 years

It's hard to step into the shoes of the average Russian when you have access to information. Truth be told, access to alternative media began to end more than 10 years ago, and has only accelerated over time.

The majority in any country always consumes the mainstream media available in that country. In Russia, there is only one point of view to choose from.

Only 10-30% of the population knows how to bypass blockages and know where to look for information.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#188

Post by krageon »

tuukkah wrote: post #157
krageon wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might have linguistic requirements, which while discriminatory are also completely understandable.

Sure, you can have linguistic requirements ("You must speak Norwegian like a native") or affordances ("We're setting up a team of Ukrainian speakers"), but perhaps it would be fairer to market these jobs as "suitable for Ukrainian speakers" rather than "you must / must not be a Ukrainian refugee".

I think it is okay to treat refugees with an acute need different from folks who have already settled down and emigrated under different circumstances.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#189

Post by tuukkah »

krageon wrote: post #188
tuukkah wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can have linguistic requirements ("You must speak Norwegian like a native") or affordances ("We're setting up a team of Ukrainian speakers"), but perhaps it would be fairer to market these jobs as "suitable for Ukrainian speakers" rather than "you must / must not be a Ukrainian refugee".

I think it is okay to treat refugees with an acute need different from folks who have already settled down and emigrated under different circumstances.

Yes, this is a case of positive discrimination that I can fully support. I made my original comment because the situation was described in the opposite: "[whether] they will accept applications from Ukrainian workers". Also, I thought it makes sense to ask these questions and potentially learn from how they did it in Norway and for instance, whether the workplace discrimination laws there are different from what I'm familiar with.
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