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Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

reuters.com

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Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#181

Post by itsoktocry »

parkingrift wrote: post #174
itsoktocry wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally quoted you, and responded to it. Here it is again: " A significant proportion of Americans believe the 2020 election was fraudulently stolen. And that’s with free press in America. Not at all hard to believe that a significant proportion of Russian people believe this lie. " Believing in election fraud and believing that a population are coincidentally killing themselves during a military incursion are no…

Again, that’s not an argument I’ve made. Please respond to what I’ve written, not an imaginary argument you’ve decided to defeat.

Hey, here's an idea: how about you actually clarify your point then, instead of repeating "that's not my argument".

But for fun, once again, your statement appears to be: "if Americans can believe the 2020 election was stolen (the first sentence), then it's not a stretch to think Russians will believe the Ukrainians are killing themselves (the third sentence)."

It's right there for everyone to read. So what are you actually arguing?

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#182

Post by itsoktocry »

tsol wrote: post #172
itsoktocry wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what do you expect of people who only have a state-run propaganda machine? This is your error. They don't "only" have state-run propaganda, and these aren't a backwards, brainwashed, uneducated people.

Independent news sources are rare in Russia, especially with the recent law making "misinformation" a jailable offense with up to 15 years jail time. I'm not saying there isn't any other news sources, but it legitimately seems like you have to go well out of your way to find them. How many Americans are digging into different news sources to see if the narrative on Ukraine is true or if it's all a western farce? Just…

Your last point I agree with: not many.

I'm not in Russia, obviously, but from what I can gather from social media, although outside media is "banned", it's still easy enough to find. Similarly to how easy I can still find RT (or worse).

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#183

Post by can16358p »

sudosysgen wrote: post #180
can16358p wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison was indeed about propaganda of Russian and Turkish authorities. Then my reply was to the comment about the cities being in war, which implies Ukraine (as being actively physically bombarded), where I explained that where I live has nothing to do with war as in guns and explosions. "Living in war", at least for me, implies being physically present in an active war zone that has been bombarded with milit…

Ah, in that case I think we agree mostly. However I'd say that paying taxes that go towards armed conflict we are, to some degree, doing war.

Yeah, I'm trying to (legally) evade as much as possible. I'd never do it in a proper country as the government would actually care about citizens, but in my case, I know where money goes on taxes which makes me very uncomfortable.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#184

Post by sudosysgen »

can16358p wrote: post #183
sudosysgen wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, in that case I think we agree mostly. However I'd say that paying taxes that go towards armed conflict we are, to some degree, doing war.

Yeah, I'm trying to (legally) evade as much as possible. I'd never do it in a proper country as the government would actually care about citizens, but in my case, I know where money goes on taxes which makes me very uncomfortable.

Thank you.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#185

Post by dkn775 »

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #130
dkn775 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at how uniform the Ukrainian coverage is if you think we can’t agree on a common reality. In principle I am pro Ukrainian I guess, although the gas prices are pissing me off, it’s too obvious to see the uniform lack of anything but one side story being told everywhere online and in media

Can you elaborate on this? I've seen a lot of reporting across various outlets on how Ukraine is impacting the markets. What is the side of the Ukraine conflict that you're not seeing being reported right now that you wish would be? Edit: some examples Fox News: https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/gas-prices-ukraine-russi... CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-5-dollars-gallon-rus... CNBC: https://www.cnbc.c…

Thanks for the links. Mainly mean that a uniform perspective of the situation is being communicated to US citizens. I don’t know if Russia has any legitimate reasons (maybe rational is the better word) because everything is painting the invasion from one perspective. Therefore most us citizens likely believe one form of reality on the issue.

Just makes me feel a little uneasy to see everything from every news source having the same general point of Russia bad Ukraine good. Because it illustrates the power still held over US citizenry.

The unease is because said uniformity makes me believe there is a form of propaganda inlaid with the news US citizens are receiving on the issue - even if I am unsure of the characteristics of it.

Hopefully my point makes sense.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#186

Post by mensetmanusman »

concinds wrote: post #177
mensetmanusman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ This is a very strange historic rewriting that's popped up everywhere in the last weeks. Did the Cold War not exist?” It’s simply pointing to the per-world-capita death rate due to war after ww2 where it dropped precipitously.

War casualties follow power laws, not normal distributions. It's a nonsensical "analysis".

It doesn’t matter what law they follow, one just needs to tabulate them in a histogram…

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#187

Post by thr0wawayf00 »

dkn775 wrote: post #185
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on this? I've seen a lot of reporting across various outlets on how Ukraine is impacting the markets. What is the side of the Ukraine conflict that you're not seeing being reported right now that you wish would be? Edit: some examples Fox News: https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/gas-prices-ukraine-russi... CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-5-dollars-gallon-rus... CNBC: https://www.cnbc.c…

Thanks for the links. Mainly mean that a uniform perspective of the situation is being communicated to US citizens. I don’t know if Russia has any legitimate reasons (maybe rational is the better word) because everything is painting the invasion from one perspective. Therefore most us citizens likely believe one form of reality on the issue. Just makes me feel a little uneasy to see everything from every news source…

I understand what you're saying. I honestly think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of a field of variables (full disclosure: I used to work in software for a news org).

Firstly, there are reputable outlets out there covering alternate angles of the Ukraine conflict, like Aljazeera[0], but they can be hard to find. One of the biggest problems I see with curation generally is that it makes people lazy and not take the effort to find the outlets that are providing counter commentary. Just because you're not seeing a particular perspective being covered doesn't mean that isn't. I think there's a much bigger discussion to be had around the efficacy of curation because it very easily leads to this bias.

Second, media companies are businesses, and like any business, they give and receive influence based on a variety of internal and external factors. For example, it's well-known that organizations like AIPAC lobby on a variety of fronts to push particular agendas, which can easily skew perspectives on certain issues (like the double standard between how we see Ukrainians and Palestinians). This is a consequence of America's embrace of lobbying.

Third, media companies are becoming more reactionary than ever because they now have data on what kinds of stories get clicks in ways that they didn't 20 years ago. In an ad-driven world, you bet media companies are constantly looking to see what kinds of content drive the most traffic to their site.

I think we are seeing patterns emerge that do drive homogeneous, coordinated behaviors on the part of media companies, but I don't think it's as simple as nefarious government-driven propaganda. I think there are many interests, public and private, which vie for particular narratives and stories via lobbying in the exact same way that companies bid on ad space via Google Ads, because its perfectly legal to do so.

One could argue that public relations firms are professional propaganda creators depending on your viewpoint.

0: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/27/western-media-cover...

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#188

Post by severino »

justinpowers wrote: post #163
severino wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I asked because in the face of similar events, I never remember a reaction as strong as the one that we are adopting against Russia. So I think it indeed has something to do with Russia, and not with the event itself.

Similar events? Please specify at least a couple of the similar events you have in mind…

2003 invasion of Iraq, just to give a recent example?

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#189

Post by ineedasername »

sangnoir wrote: post #176
ineedasername wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic pressure is usually cited as a primary factor leading to the end of apartheid, beginning in 1990, which is before the collapse of the former Soviet Union. I'm not disagreeing that the collapse played a part, but I think it's safe to say there was no single cause. Without ever-increasing sanctions the ball might not have started rolling in 1990. Without Soviet collapse it might not have unraveled quite as fas…

The article is revisionist BS. There was no "misunderstanding" of what Apartheid and its value system were, it is just that back then, institutional racism wasn't a deal breaker for allies involved in overt and covert proxy wars against communism in southern africa. The South African government negotiations with Mandela predate the fall of the Berlin wall and the Soviet collapse. The post facto rationalization to say…

That was kind of my thinking too, the ball was right rolling 2-3 years before the Soviet collapse. Though I know 1994, after the collapse, was a major milestone is finalizing the end of apartheid, so I'm not sure if the Soviet collapse had a large effect... I'm don't know (I didn't think) the Soviets had much influence in SA, but it seems plausible that the upending of world power structures in general broke down the realpolitik dynamics that might have preserved toxic power structures like apartheid, even indirectly. I honestly don't know, except to say that change began before the collapse.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#190

Post by mlindner »

severino wrote: post #188
justinpowers wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar events? Please specify at least a couple of the similar events you have in mind…

2003 invasion of Iraq, just to give a recent example?

2003 invasion of Iraq happened largely in the desert. It was also done relatively quickly and didn't level huge portions of the cities like is being done in Ukraine right now. This is what Russia is doing to several Ukrainian cities right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grozny,_the_capital_city_...
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