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Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

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Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#181

Post by gwbas1c »

Loic wrote: post #53

My personal opinion: All this Ukraine stuff is also supported by China. I bet they are ready to buy Russian oil and gas to compensate even if this costs them more than getting them from the open market. Why? Because this is a wonderful test drive to check how the West (sorry for the approximation) is reacting to a country theoretically supported by the West being invaded by another one. For me, the next one on the li…

It's much simpler than that. Invading a neighbor comes right out of the dictator's playbook.

Putin's invading Ukraine to distract from his own domestic issues and to try to boost his popularity with the general Russian population.

I don't think this has anything to do with China.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#182

Post by Friday_ »

_0w8t wrote: post #37
Friday_ wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

Russia modernized its military with money they got from selling gas and oil to Europe. Finally Germany admitted it and at least will not increase its dependence on Russian gas. I suspect if Germany would continued to develop its nuclear power rather than shutting it down, Russia would not have money for the new war. But then perhaps Germany was still grateful that Moscow allowed German reunification in 1990 and felt…

Im just saying that Germany will transition from state 1: Where it imports N amount of gas for cheap

To state 2: where it imports N amount of gas expensive.

Germany loses.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#183

Post by jug »

I'm a bit worried about the EU consequences by this, given our already high inflation rate and energy prices being very influental in that regard.

However, they assure us this won't be overly bad although there will be short-term consequences.

A winner is obviously USA with the shale gas production but I'm sure EU will diversify in otehr regards as well.

Altogether this feels like a painful but important step for a healthier energy supply in the future.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#184

Post by nindalf »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #166
ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Japan may be a stretch, it is not an exaggeration that China has designs on the territorial waters of the Phillipines and Vietnam and currently lodges diplomatic protests when Koreans flaunt their traditional culture, revealing something that looks like an expectation of tribute.

The issue between China (both PRC and Taiwan since they have the same claims) and the Philippines and Vietnam is with the South China Sea, namely the so-called "nine dash line" that includes areas also claimed by Vietnam and the Philippines. Interestingly, the Philippines were previously invaded and occupied by Spain, the US, and Japan but never China although one of their nearest neighbour... Likewise although there…

I notice you carefully avoided mention of Korea. Were you hoping no one caught that China has dominated Korea for centuries?

Or that there were failed attempts to conquer Japan? Incompetence doesn’t equal a peacenik attitude.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#185

Post by aenis »

scotty79 wrote: post #105
likecarter wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think imposing a complicated tax structure is very compromising or intimidating towards Russia.

It should be extremely simple tax structure. It's not about intimidation. Nord Stream 2 intention was to make it way more profitable than other routes so Putin can freely mess with countries those other routes go through. By firmly taxing whatever comes out of NS2 you nullify it's attractiveness for consumers. And giving Ukraine this much money would strengthen it economically so they can adavance faster towards west…

Ukraine is still a kleptocracy. The money would be largely stolen.

Also, there is no such thing as "irrevocably". Ukraine had just such irrevocable security guarantees granted when they agreed to let go of their nuclear inheritance.

There is no way to stop a determined despot via diplomacy or economical pressures. Putin is trying to replicate the first few years of Hitler's intimidation blitz and the world would do well to not appease him in any way.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#186

Post by jagrsw »

Loic wrote: post #53

My personal opinion: All this Ukraine stuff is also supported by China. I bet they are ready to buy Russian oil and gas to compensate even if this costs them more than getting them from the open market. Why? Because this is a wonderful test drive to check how the West (sorry for the approximation) is reacting to a country theoretically supported by the West being invaded by another one. For me, the next one on the li…

Is the ultimate game for the West to ban export of chipsets to Russia? I mean, the West controls IP for x86 (PC) + ARM (Mobile) + PowerPC/MIPS (Network gear), and Russia cannot probably run their infrastructure on RISC-V alone, and their Elbrus ISA probably didn't take off?

The West can ban Chinese companies and dependent states (S.Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan) from exporting chipsets and devices containing them to Russia.

It'd be an interesting thing to see, how Russia would try to go around this. They will, but it will still be a big problem.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#187

Post by meinersbur »

credit_guy wrote: post #45

Here's some quick numbers I just googled to understand the big picture. This pipeline has an annual capacity of 55 billion cubic meters. It's the same capacity as the Nord Stream 1, which is already in operation. If Germany was truly meaning business, they'd stop Nord Stream 1 the moment Russian boots enter Ukrainian territory. But let's leave that aside. 55 billion cubic meters translate to about 0.6 billion MWh. Th…

> If Germany was truly meaning business, they'd stop Nord Stream 1

If Germany is meaning business, they'd stop buying any gas from Russia. Why would the means how it gets to Germany even matter?

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#189

Post by nindalf »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #123
Loic wrote: post #53

My personal opinion: All this Ukraine stuff is also supported by China. I bet they are ready to buy Russian oil and gas to compensate even if this costs them more than getting them from the open market. Why? Because this is a wonderful test drive to check how the West (sorry for the approximation) is reacting to a country theoretically supported by the West being invaded by another one. For me, the next one on the li…

> All this Ukraine stuff is also supported by China Tolerated is a better word. There was ample ex ante evidence that the offensive was to be delayed until after the Olympics. And Russia being more beholden to Beijing as an energy supplier is certainly not bad. But supporting separatism, in any form, isn’t great for Beijing. And China has relations with Ukraine. Huawei has contracts. And China buys Ukrainian weapons.

What weapons does China buy from Ukraine?

Edit: seems like Ukraine services weapons bought from Russia after relations soured with Russia over claims of China copying the technology. (https://www.mei.edu/publications/why-ukraine-secret-weapon-c...).

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#190

Post by hef19898 »

Loic wrote: post #53

My personal opinion: All this Ukraine stuff is also supported by China. I bet they are ready to buy Russian oil and gas to compensate even if this costs them more than getting them from the open market. Why? Because this is a wonderful test drive to check how the West (sorry for the approximation) is reacting to a country theoretically supported by the West being invaded by another one. For me, the next one on the li…

The traditional West isn't looking very good or strong at the moment. That started a very long time ago, and peaked with Trump and NATOs defeat by the Taliban and the incredibly botched retreat from Afghanistan. The EU started to look really bad with the revolutions in Northern Africa, because it was those regimes that kept the African refugees away from the EUs southern borders, and the EU could pretend to be both, totally open and pro human rights without having something hard to do for it. Once that Barriers were gone, the EU started to let people drown in the Mediterranean.

Agree that this is also somewhat of a test, how far can you go militarily against NATO before there is a severe reaction. Pretty damn far I'd guess. The tests have been done when it comes to money, buying legitimacy and freedom to do whatever you want as far as rich and repressive regimes are concerned. The Olympics, FIFA and others come to mind. As does whatever the Saudis are usually up to.

This behavior was always there, to some extend. When the freedom, pro-human rights West started doing the same shit during the war of terror, so, it gave carte blanche to everyone else.

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