Not sure why the article mentions Microsoft, or if Amazon really worries about them. MS salary is notoriously low compared to FANG, with talent often leaving only because of money, particularly in the Seattle area where Amazon HQ is, and SF/SV.
Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
181–190 of 462 posts
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#182US tech salary discussions always throw around incomprehensibly large numbers and complain that they are "small"
My first tech job I made ~8k$ a year, due to being under 25 years old. My second job as a programmer was 33k$ a year, about 40% more than a cleaner in my city. It just feels ridiculous that US salary can be 10x this, when costs of living are very similar. Apartments in my city in Sweden is about 200k$, houses 500k$.
I'm Dutch and moved to the US in early 2016 to work for a bigtech company. Compensation here is about 3x what I would make back home.
After working here for just six years I could move back home and buy a house outright with the money I've been able to save.
I don't need a big house or a big car, but making more money means I can coastfire in the next five years, so it's absolutely worth it to me.
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
The average tenure numbers are misleading when a company rapidly expands and hires many new people.
I don't believe it is. My understanding is the 1.8 years average figure is how long those who already departed had stayed for. I might be wrong though, where I heard it from didn't specify.
It will be good to know how tenure is calculated. It is not sustainable to hire 30% more each year and most of them to leave in years.
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#184Finally Amazon is realising their trash comp won't get them any hires in the current market. They were not even close to being competitive with other FAANG before. Couple that with the bad culture and I'm sure they were feeling the pressure to get new hires.
Trash comp? You might be talking about FAANG companies but very few Devs (maybe London) in the UK would get close to $160K, let alone $350K. They might want to attract talent but I suspect there are diminishing returns after a while, you only have to look at Amazon music App, Amazon web site, GMail and the Netflix app on my smart TV to realise they are not releasing good stuff all the time.
Not necessarily FAANG, but even unicorns pay more than them.
I got better offers from Bloomberg, Reddit, Stripe, and Facebook. Amazon also backloads the equity. You get barely anything if you leave after 2 years.
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
When the average tenure is 1.8 years, it certainly is working. That's nearly 50% of their tenure resulting in less than 20% of their equity vesting. The way Amazon does vesting is a scam for any engineer willing to work there, IMO. Big shiny number that they can dangle in front of engineers, and everybody thinks "Oh, sure I can do 4 years for that..."
It's only a scam if you assume the first year you work there you are as productive as the 3rd. It takes most people at least 3 months just to get started, let alone actually contribute. Based on that, I don't think it's unreasonable to pay less for the first X months etc. That's all this is really. It's pretty standard in Finance that you're not eligible for a bonus until you have been with the company for a full yea…
> It's pretty standard in Finance that you're not eligible for a bonus until you have been with the company for a full year for exactly this reason.
I don't think I've ever heard of this? I started at a bank in Q4 and got a pro-rated bonus.
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#186Does this affect contractors, or just employees? This year, I noticed Amazon hires international contractors for engineering roles and I don't think I saw that before. I wonder if Amazon is opening up more roles internationally (via contractors), while increasing wages of employees to retain folks in US/Canada/etc. I don't have any data to back this idea up, it's just a thought.
These things never apply to contractors.
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is Microsoft a really cozy place to work? Shopify in Canada is similar with weak comp, but it is considered a great place to work.
Most teams at Microsoft these days have great work-life balance. Just stay away from the hardcore teams like core Windows development teams, compilers, Xbox.. The company will support you in any personal goals you have, you'll be able to find internal clubs for just about anything, and at least pre-pandemic, lecturers were frequently invited to campus to give talks on a huge range of topics that anybody could sign up…
Personal opinion:
Not a spokesperson, but anecdotally, I’m part of a core Windows Development team and there is a healthy respect for work-life balance. Both immediate level and upper-level management regularly emphasizes the need for that.
It’s been quite a nice change from previous employers.
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve had a similar experience, albeit with lower TC numbers. The RSUs were backloaded, but there were big cash grants for years 1 and 2 that flattened it out somewhat. Another thing to keep in mind is that Amazon values their stock grants as if it grows 15% every year. Obviously this is pretty optimistic and makes their offers not directly comparable to other companies that value their stock using current prices.
When does the 15% come in to play? If your recruiter tells you $xxx in stock, they actually discount that and you get a grant for 15% less shares than current market price?
The signing bonus is some N shares of stock. The $xxx figures in their comp packages are inflated in years 2, 3, and 4 by optimistically valuing those shares.
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#189Finally Amazon is realising their trash comp won't get them any hires in the current market. They were not even close to being competitive with other FAANG before. Couple that with the bad culture and I'm sure they were feeling the pressure to get new hires.
My Amazon offer from last year was one of my highest ($500K first year TC for senior SWE in Seattle). Amazon has trouble retaining talent but I doubt compensation is the real cause (at least for recent hires).
500K is a good improvement but I doubt you were the norm.
Before last year they were seriously lagging behind in terms of comp. Even in EMEA I hear they couldn't hire due to low comp compared to other companies. Even non-FAANG were beating them easily.
What I hear from friends at Amazon (joined prior to 2020) is that their comp is well below market rates.
Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k
#190As a Googler I was approached by Amazon, and when I started to look at the culture, a photo came out with Jeff Bezos using a door because he was too ,,frugal’’ to buy a desk… I would never join an office where people are proud of that.
As a Xoogler I would have been very pleased indeed with a door-sized desk instead of the little A4-sized desks they were cramming everyone on when I left in 2018. The downward trend of personal space in the industry has been awful. As a part-time undergraduate sysadmin I had a private office. At my first commercial job in the 90s I had a door on filing cabinets. My last desk at Google wasn't even big enough for my di…
Sure, open offices were a disaster, I was mostly working at Google until 2013, and when I joined again later, all the walls were taken out to ,,save space''. I also think WFH is the only way to go at this point.