Earlier quoted context omitted.
*some clueless young guys have to go and kill untold numbers of innocent people in another country. It never ceases to amaze me how citizens of the USA place the vast majority of sympathy to their beloved “troops” and barely any on those who actually get invaded.
Yep. About 5000 American soldiers died in the Iraq War. A tragic loss, undeniably. Iraqi deaths? Estimated to be between 400,000 and 1,000,000. That doesn't include deaths that will follow for decades from lasting damage and the instability that followed in the region and continues to this day.
War Is a Racket (1933)
181–190 of 235 posts
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#182https://m.youtube.com /watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU
Said POTUS Obama in his 2016 State of the Union:
"The United States of America is the most powerful nation on Earth. Period. It's not even close. We spend more on our military than the next eight nations combined."
1) 7 of those 8 are allies 2) It might be the next 15 or 20 now, as the DoD budget has increased since.
"Our troops are the finest fighting force in the history of the world. No nation dares to attack us or our allies because they know that's the path to ruin." 3) Worked out well. 20+ years in Afghanistan. The lives. The money. And that's The Best?
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#183I started paying attention to this when I lived close to DC around 2002. Bush was cutting the top tax brackets while ramping up for the Iraq invasion, the defense contractors made record profits (I remember one CEO making around 30 million) and the DC metro was plastered with ads touting the patriotism of the defense contractors. I thought "these guys are making record money, are getting their taxes reduced, try to l…
> Since then I honestly think there should be no profit in making weapons while a war is going. It is an interesting thought but ... if the government tells the industrial chain "you aren't getting paid for this" then there is a pretty high chance the war will be lost. Being optimistic, maybe it could work for one war. Then the next war people ask "where are our weapons?" and the answer is "there are none". There is…
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#184We can clearly hear the drums beating from across the Atlantic. A new adventure was already expected with the change of administration.
It's worth noting Trump was the first US President to not start a war in half a century.
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Have you heard about almost all opposition media in Ukraine being closed by simple executive orders without any courts being involved? s/opposition/Russian/g
So it's all right to close media just because it's "Russian"? Ok... You know, Ukraine has media control agency and laws which regulate quite strongly what can be and can not be said and shown by media. Opposition media was regularly pressured by this agency (while handling of "pro-Western" media was much more lenient), but in the end they were unable to close them using this legal channel, so instead Zelensky simply…
It's in law. See law about defense of Ukraine. All gov workers must take actions against aggressor.
> Ukraine has media control agency and laws which regulate quite strongly
Thank you for your kind words, but you are contradicting yourself: how such strong agency can be developed in a rotten democracy?
> Opposition media was regularly pressured by this agency
s/opposition/Russian/g
Yes.
> instead Zelensky simply used unconsitutional executive order.
It's by law. President is defense commander at time of war. Law about Defense says that time of war begins after a first battle with an aggressor and ends at the end of war, so time of war started in 2014 and continued today.
It's looking like you have misunderstanding about how liberal democracy (равноправное народовластие) works.
In dictatorship, people serve a Great Leader. In regular democracy, majority wins.
In liberal democracy, unlike regular democracy or dictatorship, value of human life is equal to infinity, thus value of a single human life is equal to value of whole nation, even when it's poor black gay against top elite: they are equal.
This creates a problem at time of war, because liberal democracy cannot force it citizens to go to war to defend the state or do any other actions required for survival. To solve this problem, liberal democracy must have two modes: peace time mode and war time mode. In peace time mode liberal democracy works as intended, in war time mode liberal democracy works as dictatorship.
Was multiple times already that a dictator or fascists country tried to capture «rotted» liberal democracy, thinking «we can capture them in 2 weeks, before they even create a defense committee», only to see as democracy switches to war time mode, creates effective chain of command, then beats sheet out of aggressor.
I recommend to watch http://justiceharvard.org/ (Russian translation is available), if you want to understand how liberal democracy is constructed.
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The Ukranians seem to be downplaying the risk of invasion. Whether or not the US media wants a war, it may be the case that they've overestimated the likelihood of an invasion. The goal of V. Poopking is to make billions for him and his friends in RF and Germany. For that, he needs Nord Stream 2 to work, so he needs to exchange something for Nord Stream 2. RF has weak economy, so it has nothing to propose in exchan…
Germany wants/needs the pipeline, sabre rattling or not.
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it's Russian propaganda. See facts at https://euvsdisinfo.eu/
So instead of pointing to at least single false fact in my comment you point me to a website which quite aggressively translates the official Western stance and does not even tries to look as independent (it's an EEAS outlet), which I should blindingly trust? For reference, I do know both Russian and Ukrainian (the latter to an extent of being able to understand news), so I built my opinion based on Ukrainian media a…
When Russian outlets and TV channels will present both RF and Western points of view, I will watch them, but currently I prefer to read EUvsDisinfo.
> a website which quite aggressively translates the official Western stance
«Aggressively»? It's not a TV channel in each major country and a show at prime time at major channels in RF, with 9 zeroes in budget. It's just a site with few guys.
> For reference, I do know both Russian and Ukrainian (the latter to an extent of being able to understand news), so I built my opinion based on Ukrainian media and social networks.
I guess, you're already banned from pro-Ukrainian social circles, because I see no guys like you anymore in FB. Which is a bit sad, because I like to argue with them to better understand our enemy. Where I can meet people like you on FB or YouTube?
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#188The tragedy is that poor unfortunate grunts only get to know it's a racket after it's too late - when half of them are already dead. Unfortunately, it seems to be a chararistic of the human condition that learning about war is a slow prossess and that the horrors of experiencing it cannot passed down from one generation to the next. Experience gathered over millennia has demonstrated that it's essentially impossible…
It would help if the US would actually teach history instead of pretend like it did not happen.
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty simple really. If you are being invaded without provovation and every attempt at diplomacy has failed, and going past form, you know that if your enemy succeeds in overrunning you, then your women wiil be raped and you and your children killed then you've no option other than to fight with all your might. That's the extreme case, at what point on a sliding scale the options change is moot and subject to vigouo…
That's the extreme case, but there's also the argument that the Afghans were fighting a just war from their perspective against foreign invasion. Despite all the horrible stuff they're inflicting on their own people day to day.
Let me give you a few well-known countries and you can think about whether there are any parallels between them and Afghanistan.
1 England: the English Civil War (very simplified description). The terrorists as we would call them nowadays [the Parliamentarians] won and King Charles I was executed. The people that now rule the UK have inherited the system of government originally set up by those victors. (Yes, there have been changes but we've stopped executing kings).
If we had Dr Who's Tardis and took a modern army back to restore the monarchy (the then rightful heir to the throne King Charles), then would this be a legitimate exercise?
2. What about that rebel mob of colonies in the US led by Washington in 1776? They defied the rightful King of Great Britain an Ireland, George III, and many, many people on both sides died during their act of succession.
3. Then there's the American Civil War/The War Between the States. It can be argued strongly that Lincoln started the war; and or did nothing to stop it or defuse the tense situation between the time of his victory in the polls and that of his inauguration.
In the process of saving the Union Lincoln started a war that killed more Americans than in all other wars that the US has fought in ever since - Spanish, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, etc. Like Pontus Pilate, he sat on his hands and did nothing to stop it.
It can be argued that by 1860 slavery was on the decline world wide and that given several more decades the South would have been forced to abandon slavery due to pressure, sanctions, from other countries such as the UK. A trade embargo on Southern cotton would have bitten the South very hard.
In the grand scheme off things, Lincoln could now be classed as a war criminal for starting a war that killed somewhere between 600,000 and a million people. Do the utilitarian equation - was that number of lives worth it when waiting a decade or two may have seen the same outcome? When you consider the inequlity and illtreatment that negros have had in the intervening 150+ years since the War then the answer may not be so obvious.
Today, current rulers in Washington are the beneficiaries of both of those conflicts. Thus one could ask the question about how legitimate is their rule nowadays (many Southerners would still probably question the victor's legitimacy).
4. 1789 France. The French Revolution culminated in the execution of the legitimate king of France Louis XVI in the Place de la Concorde by mob of essentially out of control 'terrorists'.
What followed was The Reign of Terror (la Terreur) - barbarism, death and destruction beyond anything seen since the Crusades of the 12th and 13th Centuries and not equalled again until the Nazis came to power in the 1930s.
The current government of France has inherited many aspects of that violent revolution and now claims legitimacy to rule the country as a republic instead of a kingdom.
5. The same goes for the Russian Revolution of 1917 and the murder of the legitimate czar of Russia, Czar Nicolas.
I hear everyone saying hey, hey now. However, think about it for a moment, most of our governments today have their historical routes in one form of insurgency or revolution or another. Governing the world is no easy matter and it's always been thus.
I'm not here to argue one way or other except to say you're correct about Afghanistan but then that's only correct inasmuch as to who one considers to have legitimacy. My view is that the poor longsuffering ordinary people of Afghanistan should be allowed to live and run their lives as they see fit without hindrance and interference. But then that's taking the naïve view and it's certainly not the current reality.
Yes, terrorism is alive and well Afghanistan but it was also the case in Vietnam with the Vietcong. Now, that's all over and friendship has been restored between the belligerents. Trouble is that two million people had to die in the process.
Afghanistan has had a rotten time for much of its existence, especially so since the British tried to tame the country in the 19th Century.
Many of the troubles in the Middle East in the 20th Century can be traced back to the dissolution and break up of the Ottoman Empire after WWI together with interference from Western countries, the UK, France etc. Problems that arose from those ill-considered policies which were forced on those countries more than a centuary ago are still with us today. For example, the 1917 Balfour Agreement was a well meaning but somewhat failed attempt to sort out the Jewish-Arab problem in that area of the world and it is still in an unmitigated mess today.
Whenever grand political policies are introduced always expect there'll be fallout from them for hundreds of years to come.
Re: War Is a Racket (1933)
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? So you are refusing to look at an information source with real quotes by the leaders involved if it isn't from one of your CIA-staffed western big-name news sources? Hm, maybe i am not the one who is disqualified here.
> I'll take non-CIA-staffed eastern small-name source too, as long as it's not literally the official propaganda agency of the regime that's in the middle of planning the fucking invasion being discussed. I don't think that's a very high bar, personally. Ya, so... you have a choice between the official propaganda agency of the US (the so-called "free press" all marching in lockstep), or the propaganda of the person r…
Why tankies insist on defending a homophobic, right-wing dictatorship in Russia is just beyond me.