Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#181

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

sjtindell wrote: post #115

minerva23 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why the heck doesn't the macOS kernel support native containerization? Because Apple has no plans of growing their server OS marketshare. I know there are benefits of using namespaces (containers) in the desktop market, but they don't sell iMacs/MBPs. Exterior design and heavy marketing is their sales strategy.

I never understood this, because surely some huge percentage of developers use Macs. Enterprises buy stacks of them nonstop. Just making that group happy would get you the reputation of being a developers machine, for serious computer people, which could translate into laymen purchases too.

iOS, iPadOS, watchOS and macOS applications aren't made out of thin air, they also need developers.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#182

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #163

Kwpolska wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would developers really be happy with containers running macOS inside? Production is running Linux, so they need two sets of images and their local image will be different from the one running in production.

I'm really not sure what comment you're replying to but Mac developers write code that runs on linux primarily using Docker and "VMs" that run linux on docker. Like; probably 75% of the devs on the west coast do this.

Mac developers run code that runs on iOS, iPadOS, watchOS and macOS, that is why they are Mac developers.

Otherwise they are just UNIX developers that don't care which POSIX platform they are actually using.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#183

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 2:45 PM UTC

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #126

musicale wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple needs to do what Microsoft did surrounding Linux on Windows. Allocate some engineers for a few years to make life easier for developers on their platform. Apple will most likely continue to do what it always does: make billions of dollars while largely ignoring Linux. iOS and macOS developers will continue to use Xcode the way they always have. (And perhaps Swift Playgrounds on iOS.)

Maybe, but that's what we all said about Microsoft ten years ago.

While Microsoft might have lost the server battle, those of us deploying on Azure hardly bother with which OS the type 1 hypervisors are actually running, many Azure workloads could even running directly on the hypervisors that we wouldn't really notice.

As for the desktop, regardless of all screw ups since Windows 8, GNU/Linux has hardly made any gain there.

Then we can turn into mobile space, which they did lose, however in what concerns tablets, hybrid laptops running Windows win out clusmy Android tablets every day of the week.

Finally, WSL is there to cater to the same folks that buy Macs to develop Linux instead of supporting Linux OEMs.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#184

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 2:46 PM UTC

musicale wrote: post #167

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but that's what we all said about Microsoft ten years ago.

Who knows, maybe Apple will upgrade sandboxing to jails/containers and add a FreeBSD-style Linux compatibility layer. Or maybe they'll go full-on MS and include a Linux kernel alongside Xnu using Hypervisor.framework. (Note that in my experience the networking design of Ubuntu on WSL broke containers that worked fine on regular Ubuntu in Virtualbox/VMware/etc., but YMMV.) Something like that is certainly possible, th…

macOS doesn't need WSL, it is already a certified UNIX.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#185

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

surfer7837 wrote: post #102

No company is going to touch Virtualbox without a 10ft barge pole. The licensing is so easy to get wrong and before you know it you’re writing a cheque to Oracle’s legal department

Oracle has plenty of happy customers that don't think twice about using Virtualbox.

Plus they aren't the only game in town with VM tooling.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#186

Post by xjlin0 » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 4:33 PM UTC

shepardrtc wrote: post #120

rckrd wrote: post #10

One of the past maintainers of minikube here. Minikube, while targeted towards Kubernetes developers, also provides all the features you'd want here. It also takes away most of the pain from virtual machine management w/ native hypervisors. If you're looking for customizability (boot image, docker version, container runtime), minikube is probably your best bet. It even comes with some rudimentary file-sharing and por…

It should be noted that minikube does not work on the M1. Sadly we started switching devs over to M1 at the same time we finished up switching our local environment over to minikube.

Also does VirtualBox on M1 supported?

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#187

Post by my123 » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 4:43 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #172

tda wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for anyone looking to migrate away from docker desktop on Windows for use with VSCode I wrote this guide: https://gist.github.com/tdamsma/06cafea175d6784aea7b3634bb94...

It doesn't help for Windows containers though.

https://github.com/woachk/dockerinstall for a very minimal install, stuff other than that is unneeded for Windows containers.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#188

Post by ttfkam » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

xjlin0 wrote: post #186

shepardrtc wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that minikube does not work on the M1. Sadly we started switching devs over to M1 at the same time we finished up switching our local environment over to minikube.

Also does VirtualBox on M1 supported?

Nope

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#189

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

my123 wrote: post #187

pjmlp wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't help for Windows containers though.

https://github.com/woachk/dockerinstall for a very minimal install, stuff other than that is unneeded for Windows containers.

Thanks, that is more what I was looking for.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#190

Post by tjr225 » Sat, Jan 29, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #182

tjr225 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not sure what comment you're replying to but Mac developers write code that runs on linux primarily using Docker and "VMs" that run linux on docker. Like; probably 75% of the devs on the west coast do this.

Mac developers run code that runs on iOS, iPadOS, watchOS and macOS, that is why they are Mac developers . Otherwise they are just UNIX developers that don't care which POSIX platform they are actually using.

Yeah, I meant developers who prefer to use macs.