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Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

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Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#181

Post by mikeyouse »

texasbigdata wrote: post #176
mikeyouse wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my contention that it's actively harmful to truth, science, and public health when we pretend like there's value in having a "civil conversation" with bad faith actors. There's no benefit to cosplaying as Socrates when there is no data point or research result that could change the mind of these weird conspiracy theorists. If a well-done study came out tomorrow that demonstrated Ivermectin worked to help Covid p…

I personally formed a three person reading group with 2 friends (one chemistry PhD and one retired tech CEO that's a longevity genius) and we read a stack of these papers end to end and even attempted to fumble through a recalcution of a meta-analysis following the retraction of one paper. Before personally taking the medicine we spent 1.5 weeks reading everything we could find. Straight from Google Scholar or pubmed…

Ivermectin is a fine anti-parasite, and plausibly has a mechanism of action that could benefit specific patients infected with specific viruses. Unfortunately for all of us, it has no measurable benefit on Covid. As shown again and again.

We have hundreds of millions of active infections, it's dead-simple to do research studies to determine whether something prevents hospitalization, or shortens length-of-stay, etc etc. You don't have to spend weeks of your life reading primary materials -- here's the EUA for Paxlovid (Section 14):

https://www.fda.gov/media/155050/download

A pre-registered RCT, with specific endpoints and statistically significant evidence that it lowers viral load, and prevents hospitalization and death. It only took 4 months from study enrollment -> results to see how effective it was. Paxlovid works! Hurray! IVM doesn't. Rats.

Good faith individuals would move on and investigate something else that could help humanity but admitting you were wrong doesn't get you invited onto Joe Rogan so here we are, with people still referencing their nonsense.

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#182

Post by nradov »

inciampati wrote: post #179
nradov wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not strictly true. Consider our complete set of medical knowledge today. What percentage of that knowledge came from studies with control groups?

It's about the fraction of that medical knowledge is likely to be revised when considering new controlled studies.

Over a sufficiently long time horizon the fraction of medical knowledge likely to be revised approaches 1. That includes all knowledge generated from controlled studies.

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#183

Post by mikeyouse »

swader999 wrote: post #136
mikeyouse wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need to do a line-by-line rebuttal of a Covid protocol my HVAC technician wrote -- though he likely did more to help the pandemic by changing out HEPA air filters than the Front Link covid quacks did with their awful advice and martyr complex. If someone is catastrophically and unapologetically wrong on problem 1a, you don't really need to pay attention to their solution to problem 1b.

Ok, so just ad hominem then I guess. Lazy and a disservice to yourself and anyone suffering from this.

Sometimes the timing is just great -- how about the fact that the protocol was designed by several grifters selling fraudulent "long Covid" tests and charging people thousands of dollars for tele-health visits where they then lie about lab tests and prescribe drugs that don't remotely work.

Just published now:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/01/desperate-patie...

These people should be in prison.

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#184

Post by tasogare »

wantsanagent wrote: post #44

This is a big hammer. Please note this section: "A proton pump inhibitor (PPI) pantoprazole 40 mg/day was also prescribed for gastric protection. Such a regime must only be followed under strict and qualified medical guidance to obviate any dangers, especially haemorrhagic bleeding, and of the therapy as a whole." Induced hemophilia is no joke.

> Induced hemophilia is no joke.

Note that this is one of the possible side effect mentionned in Pfizer documentation of their covid vaccine, reported in article research articles like [1], and it doesn't seem to bother too much people.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33783953/

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#185

Post by yamrzou »

kadoban wrote: post #159
yamrzou wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When experimenting with new treatments, a control group is very important. Otherwise the study could be biased in favor or against the treatment. Even when a control group is present, a poorly-designed experiment could later turn out to be problematic, such as the Diethylstilbestrol (DES) medical tragedy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol ). In that case, studies that were in favor of the treatment we…

I suspect nobody would argue that lack of a control group is better, but this should still be a good lead for something to look at more deeply. It's not like it gives you no information.

Agreed.

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#186

Post by manwe150 »

swader999 wrote: post #152
manwe150 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We can hypothesize anything, but we shouldn’t just assume everything. The manufacturers made changes to the RNA sequence to reduce the ability to leave the cell, and then tested it in animal studies to confirm.

As OP indicates, it can still bind to ACE-2 and that changes the way these cells behave. Peristalsis in your veins is changed when the endothelial cells which have ACE2 are hit with spike (vaccine origin or covid origin) for instance. I think there's enough evidence out there that spike from vaccines circulate widely. I can dig it up if you want?

You are welcome to look for evidence, but OP is also wrong about the spike protein being "fully functional" in the vaccine. The spike protein sequence was modified in many ways in creating the vaccine, including to prevent it from undergoing the conformal change upon encountering ACE2 which would normally then cause the virus to then enter a cell.

For a sample reference: https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.00203-21

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#187

Post by edmcnulty101 »

mikeyouse wrote: post #137
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listening to Robert Malone and numerous other scientists like Anders Tegnell and Dr. Peter McCoullough and other people with credentials that make your credentials look like those of an HVAC technician, it's strange that the HVAC technician would call them quacks. Just because you have the main stream media on your side doesn't mean your narrative isn't 'the sky is pink'. It could mean the emperor wears no clothes bu…

It's not the 'narrative' thats on the side of vaccines and actual useful therapeutics -- it's the vast majority of science. You sound exactly like my elderly obese neighbor whose rationale for not getting vaccinated is "all those doctors who aren't getting it have to know something I don't". If 99% of scientists and doctors are on one side, and you need to resort to credentialism instead of actual research to prop up…

Labotomies won the Nobel price.

You're trading appeal to authority for appeal to the crowd.

Both are logical fallacies.

Most smart doctors and scientists are reserving judegment at this point, because all of this is happening in real time, so any data to make a rational decision is incomplete. Smart people would know better.

It's hubris to have the confidence that you and the mainstream media do about a novel virus and a novel vaccine using novel vaccine technology.

And it's really bad to shut out dissenting opinions from public discourse especially when they're subject matter experts.

New Orleans had full confidence in it's levees backed by 99% of the scientists and engineers in the area, then Hurricane Katrina happened. People reported leaks in the levee's years before it happened and were ignored.

There are so many questions and conflicting or inconsistent data in the mainstream narrative. The fact that the media doesn't report anything conflicting is a huge red flag for me.

Whether Ivermectin works or masks work or quarantine works...it's all irrelevant.

If you haven't learned that this is an endemic virus by now and that people need to make their own decisions and not be co-erced by big government to follow a questionable narrative built on incomplete data, ...your HVAC technician and your obese neighbor might be smarter than you.

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#188

Post by swader999 »

mikeyouse wrote: post #183
swader999 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so just ad hominem then I guess. Lazy and a disservice to yourself and anyone suffering from this.

Sometimes the timing is just great -- how about the fact that the protocol was designed by several grifters selling fraudulent "long Covid" tests and charging people thousands of dollars for tele-health visits where they then lie about lab tests and prescribe drugs that don't remotely work. Just published now: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/01/desperate-patie... These people should be in prison.

I didn't suggest anyone use IncellDX or covid long haulers.com. Just because Bruce Patterson had his name associated with the flccc doesn't prove anything about it's viability. Keep trying.

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#189

Post by mindslight »

JPKab wrote: post #138
mindslight wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ethylene oxide/mercaptans/styrenes/acrylates" are chemical pollutants and thus won't be taken care of by particulate filters. You need something like an activated carbon filter for that.

Do they sell any furnace filters capable of stopping these?

Well it's more like neutralizing as opposed to filtering, and sure there probably are some aimed at people with central air that want to reduce VOCs. I believe I've seen standalone filters in the context of plant growing. And perhaps there are carbon aquarium filters that would work for DIY? I myself just went for some off the shelf air "purifiers", which have a prefilter + particulate filter + carbon filter stack. It's the path of overpaying for a fan and gimmicky replacements, but they're quiet, automatically ramp up speed for high VOCs, and didn't require me to DIY something for once.

Re: Antiplatelet and anticoagulant therapy resolves long covid in 24 patients

#190

Post by edmcnulty101 »

dpark wrote: post #180
jonathan-adly wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the underlying problems of COVID is an excessive immune system response, which we have known for 10+ years that it leads to coagulation issues. Long COVID or acute COVID - it is fundamentally your body fighting a battle in the wrong way. So, in that specific way, COVID is COVID.

So…you misspoke? I also find this a really odd line to draw. The fact that treating ICU patients with anticoagulants is standard does not automatically mean it’s useful for long COVID patients. If it turns out that it’s useful, awesome, but it’s not obvious a priori .

I didn't see them misspeak. They just clarified. Their follow up statement was right in line with their original.

Pretty cool that they're ahead of the curve on this.

Even if they didn't know about long covid officially, they followed the known science up to that point, and this is incompletely but interesting new data that's showing it's helping more than possibly known at the time.

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