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Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

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Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#181

Post by symlinkk »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94
wronglebowski wrote: post #2

> "Most engineers received stock worth $80,000 to $120,000, with the bonuses provided as restricted stock units that are set to vest over the course of four years provided the employees stay with Apple and do not take jobs at other companies." Is that really a significant amount enough to ward off being poached? 120k over 4 years is 30k a year if linear. I would think at the pay scales being discussed they would get…

A bonus is a bonus. Presumably this is on top of whatever they had before, so an extra $20K to $45K per year is icing on the cake. In reality, most engineers aren't bouncing around from company to company every year trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their compensation. The strategy works well for a few iterations in early careers, but eventually it starts becoming counter-productive. If you have 10 jobs in 1…

It is significantly harder to get promoted than to change jobs, and the former almost always pays less than the latter.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#182

Post by lotsofpulp »

missedthecue wrote: post #144
jonas21 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really that much of an outlier -- AAPL has had pretty ridiculous growth in each of the previous 4-year periods this century as well. 2021-12-28 $179.29 4.19x 2017-12-28 $ 42.77 2.14x 2013-12-28 $ 20.00 2.65x 2009-12-28 $ 7.56 2.87x 2005-12-28 $ 2.63 6.57x 2001-12-28 $ 0.40 3.33x 1997-12-28 $ 0.12 I agree this can't go on for too much longer, if only because governments will eventually stop Apple if they cont…

Apple being a $12 trillion company in four years just seems pretty low probability to me.

Would you have you ascribed a low probability to Apple being $3T as of Dec 2021 back in Sep 2019 (when it hit $1T)?

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#183

Post by mancerayder »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #171
tshaddox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI, while cost of living is a problem pretty much everywhere in the Bay Area, the infamous sanitation issues are isolated to an incredibly tiny portion of the Bay Area.

The homelessness and drug use I hear about in SF really boggles my mind. If california were a nation, it's GDP would be higher than the entire nation of india . Why in god's name can a place as rich as SF and the bay area not address their problems? Seriously? This isn't hard. Look at Portugal. Are you really telling me this couldn't be done on a smaller scale in California? Do they simply not care?

Cynically, the answer that a lot of wealthy people have to the problem of inequality is to cut the lower tier loose - loose from bail, prisons and restrictions. Cut them loose from prosecution. SF and NYC, two cities with Progressive badging, have much bigger problems than cities with smaller budgets but wiser (and national) housing, healthcare and child care systems. Has anyone asked themselves why it's legal in California to pitch a tent on a sidewalk or shoot heroin on the sidewalk (in NYC, too, now), but stuff like this is barely seen in cities like Paris, London and Lisbon? And why we ceased prosecuting property crimes, with predictable results?

The answer, I think, is that Progressives in the American cities wear their homelessness and drug problems like a badge of honor. The messaging appears to be: look at how tolerant we are, and if you want to blame someone you can blame the rich. They should do better to learn from our European friends how to spend tax dollars to help the needy.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#184

Post by leetcrew »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #78
71a54xd wrote: post #66

Fuck me, how do I position myself as a developer being poached for $200k?

Go to one of a dozen or so privileged colleges that FAANGs almost exclusively hire from. Or more realistically, know someone who is already at one of those companies and can vouch for you and get your resume looked at by a recruiter. After that it's mostly a matter of how well you can handle a high pressure tech interview loop.

it's really not like that. I got interviews from both FAANGs I applied to last time. I went to a no name school, worked at a no name company, and had no referrals.

the interviews are challenging, but it's no secret what you'll be evaluated on.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#185

Post by lotsofpulp »

mgkimsal wrote: post #147
diob wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. I don't understand the logic of why companies do this. It's not limited to big tech, I'd say it's true anywhere the company grows beyond 40 or so employees.

I can't get any sort of loyalty discount from big telcos or cable companies either, but they'll gladly give me 3 months free service to switch to them. You been a customer with us for 8 years and want the $10/discounted rate we've plastered billboards with? Get lost. Or... go switch to a competitor, then we'll court you back with freebies.

>Or... go switch to a competitor, then we'll court you back with freebies.

Obviously going to a competitor comes with its costs, and hence people do not do it just for the $x discount. Just like with employment.

If there were no switching costs, then you would not see these types of "misaligned" incentives.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#187

Post by ozzythecat »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #23
uejfiweun wrote: post #16

Pretty much everyone I know who worked in Software at Apple had a bad experience. The common refrain was that engineers are treated like crap at apple, and it's the designers who get all the glory. It makes me excited for the future of software engineering to see moves like this. Clearly Apple, and many other companies, are starting to understand just how critical devs are to a modern business. And they are finding t…

I worked in software & hardware engineering at Apple, we don't know one another, and nothing you cite as the common refrain was true anywhere around our world. We were treated excellently, and I loved it. (Quit for a science job far away, total non sequitur, not because of Apple)

This is a recurring theme of posts that authoritatively attempt to describe the “hopeless” working conditions of highly compensated employees at big tech company .

I’ve been at one of the FAANGs for about 7 years. I’ve been on some amazing teams but also my share of office bs and difficult people.

From reading HN’s characterization of my work environment, I’m depressed, completely stressed out, and everyone I work with is a horrible human being.

I mean, if I wasn’t depressed before, I’m more likely to be depressed after reading some of these posts.

As much as folks on even this site rally against FB, the constant stream of negativity or opinions - on why we should all hate X or why Y is evil - is easily found even here on HN.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#188

Post by ZephyrBlu »

jonas21 wrote: post #137
ripper1138 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremely unlikely that Apple will 4x again in 4 years. Last 4 years stock performance are an extreme outlier for the all big tech companies.

It's not really that much of an outlier -- AAPL has had pretty ridiculous growth in each of the previous 4-year periods this century as well. 2021-12-28 $179.29 4.19x 2017-12-28 $ 42.77 2.14x 2013-12-28 $ 20.00 2.65x 2009-12-28 $ 7.56 2.87x 2005-12-28 $ 2.63 6.57x 2001-12-28 $ 0.40 3.33x 1997-12-28 $ 0.12 I agree this can't go on for too much longer, if only because governments will eventually stop Apple if they cont…

What you aren't taking into account is that the larger you are, the more difficult it is to grow. You can even see this in Apple's growth since 2005 slowly declining.

The last couple of years have been absolutely bonkers. 4x-ing from here would be 17x their valuation in 2017. Controlling for inflation, the probability of that happening given their current valuation seems ridiculously low.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#189

Post by sf_sugar_daddy »

mancerayder wrote: post #168
shrimpx wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perception is that everyone knows job hopping is normal and companies will be happy to have you for that 1-2 years if you’re good. It’s not a black mark on your resume. For me a questionable resume is someone who spent the past 20 years at Accenture or something. Signals possibility of being too entrenched in those habits to make a contribution in a new environment.

It depends on how big the things you're building are. If you have an influence in direction-setting, policy, procedures, norms, even company culture, if you're involved in large projects that take time, then 1-2 years might not be enough. Certainly not 1 year. If you're in a large organization, it takes many months to just build the relationships enough to accomplish bigger things. Jumping around every 1-2 years is f…

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Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#190

Post by Exmoor »

slimsag wrote: post #95
supernova87a wrote: post #74

Apple is reaching a size where the un-coordination of its leadership and processes as it has grown (while yet rigorously enforcing other negative aspects of corporate culture) are producing a place that is harder and harder to enjoy working for. It worked for a while when the company was small enough and lines of command were short enough for leadership to control effectively, but it has grown while the people proces…

Serious question: what are the companies where this is not true? My experience personally and from what I have heard from others, this is basically true at every tech workplace today

If the GP poster had said that that Apple had previously solved the "external hires treated better than internal candidates" it would be perhaps the most impressive thing I'd ever heard about Apple culture.
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