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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#181

Post by JumpCrisscross »

moooo99 wrote: post #107
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re better at preserving the threat of new entrants. Truckers routinely start their own businesses here. That’s tougher in most of Europe, where labor laws making hiring and firing strikingly expensive.

> That’s tougher in most of Europe, where labor laws making hiring and firing strikingly expensive. That is true. Personally and anecdotally I find that to be a good thing. I feel much more comfortable with 35h work week, 35 days of paid vacation making €60k without living in the fear of getting fired the next day. Even if I could get more money in the US, I highly doubt that my standard of living would increase enou…

They’re frankly two perfectly good equilibria that do different things well. It’s part of what makes us good allies.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#182

Post by cycomanic »

nosianu wrote: post #178
cycomanic wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me ask you this from a different perspective. If you are responsible for purchasing, will you ask competitors for quotes? And use those quotes for negotiating your current contract with a supplier? Isn't what the employee is doing exactly the same thing? If you would be a supplier you stance would translate to, I never make a new offer if a customer comes with a better offer from a competitor. I suspect one would…

Goods don't have a mind and thoughts so psychology does not apply. The good you price-compare won't become unhappy and later leave as OP described. I have no opinion on if the negotiating tactic is good or not, only that the comparison of goods and people isn't quite right IMO.

We are talking contracts, not goods. Contracts are with companies which are made up of people. So why wouldn't psychology apply?

Edit: I also find the argument that employment is not a an economic transaction a really weird argument. Employers don't give raises just so that the employee feels better for example.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#183

Post by onion2k »

skywal_l wrote: post #72
onion2k wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

And when someone come to you asking for a raise, how often do you give it?

Practically always, but never just more money for the same work. People dont ask very often because I've been lucky enough to be able to give people decent cost-of-living raises, recognition-of-effort raises, and promotions quite regularly. When someone asks for more money it's pretty much always the first step to a promotion, or at least some sort of additional responsibility that comes with a pay increase.

The irony is that the main reason people get paid more when they change job is because they move up at the same time.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#184

Post by bjarneh »

Not sure how inflation is calculated globally; but where I live (Norway) we leave housing costs out of inflation. That always seemed very strange to me. Our main cost of living, (which has gone through the roof the last 25 years) is somehow left out of the calculation. My rent, or cost of buying a house - is much more important than the cost of a Snickers bar.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#185

Post by phreeza »

gentleman11 wrote: post #168
kelseyfrog wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A work stoppage is more realistic than direct combat. What are they going to do? Force us to work? For example, with the way supply chains are right now, how much leverage do transportation/logistics workers have to force a change?

Strikes are illegal in many industries. So, literally, the answer is yes

Can't force someone to not strike who never entered the workforce in a meaningful way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_ping https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=JXII

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#187

Post by jordan_curve »

tobltobs wrote: post #179
door103 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "left" elites have forgotten the people, and the left in general is talking more about identity issues than class issues. You mention this in a discussion about Bernie Sanders? Probably the politician with the most single-minded focus on class politics in the country

> The "left" elites Bernie isn't elite and not close to any power circle.

What do you mean? He is currently a U.S. Senator. There aren’t many circles more elite or powerful than that.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#188

Post by cycomanic »

tapland wrote: post #149
Kiro wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at Sweden. The collectively bargained pay increase was below inflation in all sectors. You should unionize for many reasons but I wouldn't trust it as an efficient tool for pay negotiations.

I've never seen a pay increase above ~2% here in Sweden. Some union agreements allow larger (and lower) changes if the average increase is still the decided upon percentage.

? I've had a raise above 2% every year since I've come to Sweden in 2016. Our raises are determined on a scale based on performance. IIRC the average raise is negotiated by the union, but where on that scale you sit is determined by negotiation between you and your manager.

Edit: Sorry I might have misread your comment. I should say that our average increase was also above 2% several of those years.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#189

Post by refurb »

pabs3 wrote: post #141
roenxi wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation doesn't - fundamentally - change the power balance between employers and employees. Market forces will cause the situation to find a fair market price. If job hopping can't get you better wages, then you probably don't have enough market power to resist if an employer flat-out cuts your pay. Though to try and prevent misunderstandings - I do think inflation is bad for people who are paid wages. Market force…

Late last century inflation and then wages keeping up with that inflation enabled a generation of folks to pay off their first mortgages quite quickly.

It allowed a very small slice of the population to do that. You basically had to take on a loan prior to the run up in interest rates. If you were born in 1950 you were fucked since rates had skyrocketed by the time you were 20.

Just like millennials love to claim boomers had it easy, it was a small slice of the pie that benefited.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#190

Post by skinkestek »

MrPatan wrote: post #180
the-alt-one wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm unionized and had a 13% pay raise. To be fair, they motivated that by saying that I should get up to speed with other engineer's raises instead of staying at a junior level (yes, I'm bragging).

What I'm reading here is the union kept your initial wages 13% below market

Not unionized[1], but this is something I'd accuse unions of.

[1]: because no uninon ever manages to not try to meddle in international politics. Gandalf in LOTR had it right: he did not want power because he knew he would be tempted to try to do a lot of good things.

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