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Plans you're not supposed to talk about

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Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#181

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

jandrese wrote: post #107
XorNot wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disease doesn't kill "weaker" members of a group, it kills susceptible ones. The Spanish Flu notably had a much higher mortality amongst younger, healthier people.

COVID however is most fatal to the eldery. Letting it simply rage out of control could push back the social security crisis a few years. I don't think anything as Machiavellian as this is going on. I think it was all just a culmination of decades anti-expert propaganda and knee-jerk obstructionism coming to a head in a terribly fatal way.

The elderly though often serve an important part in society. In particular, they can care for grandchildren.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#182

Post by psyc »

xupybd wrote: post #130

As one of the church goers that genuinely believes in God and the afterlife I'm surprised and saddened to hear people attend in disbelief. It's a shame the same community can't be found amongst others that hold similar beliefs. It's sad that someone can't be true to their own beliefs.

Among my atheist friends, a number of them have been quite involved with churches, for the social support, and because they thought it was good for their kids. I once dated an atheist who was appalled almost to the point of deal-breakage that I didn't want to teach my kids the Bible. She couldn't imagine where else they'd learn morals from.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#183

Post by alasdair_ »

czbond wrote: post #178

Even if G*d didn't exist, one probably can't prove either way. So, from a risk/reward payoff, it seems believing is a higher payoff than not. And from a purely emotionless approach, if you're a Western religion (Christian) you don't have a high bar to cross. Just believe, no deeds or acts are required. That is a high ROI trade either way. [Edit: I am not endorsing a specific Western Religion, I'm giving an example. I…

What if believing in one specific god pisses off the “real” god when you die and you go to hell for believing in the wrong god, while not believing in any god gets you a free pass?

If we’re making up unfalsifiable claims then this seems just as likely to happen as not.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#184

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

the_doctah wrote: post #179
shkkmo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That claim is pretty widespread and ubiquitous among the scientific literature. You might consider reassessing your news sources if they have been telling you otherwise. I believe that the emphasis on the reduction of the chance of serious illness & hospitalization is because people believe that all the people who would be motivated to get vaccinated out of altruism are already vaccinated.

Pretty crazy how every single vaccinated person I know has tested positive for Covid since. I guess I and they must be outliers. If there is some protection from spread, it's garbage protection.

That you anecdotally know vaccinated people who got Covid and that Covid vaccines lower the chance of being infected with Covid can both be true?

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#185

Post by reducesuffering »

zaik wrote: post #152
reducesuffering wrote: post #98

You're the (US) government. You want to prevent deaths from Covid. Research keeps generally concluding that previous Covid infection natural immunity is roughly as good as vaccine induced. You realize if you message this to the public and allow equality to vax-passes, never-vax people will be incentivized to now try and get covid so they can be restriction-less without being vaxxed, further spreading covid. You decid…

Natural immunity might be as good (or even better) than vaccine induced, but comes with a risk of hospitalization or death. If you're cynical, this means lost tax revenue for your government.

1/6 confirmed (up to maybe 1/3 unconfirmed?) of Americans already had Covid. They aren't facing the no-immunity hospitalization or death anymore.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#186

Post by johnchristopher »

the-dude wrote: post #134
johnchristopher wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the point I am trying to make (granted not very eloquently) starts out from this idea [1] that humans are kind of crazy, and that maybe this crazyness is what makes us so successful; so I put that too much safety may undo this crazyness, it puts it to sleep? You are blurring the lines between taking a personal risk in one occasion at a specific time and taking the risk of not wearing a mask or washing hands or cook…

What is wrong with cooking meat?

there should be a "not" in front of it :/. I should have used "washing vegetables" or "not cooking chicken" or something less ambiguous.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#187

Post by njarboe »

czbond wrote: post #178

Even if G*d didn't exist, one probably can't prove either way. So, from a risk/reward payoff, it seems believing is a higher payoff than not. And from a purely emotionless approach, if you're a Western religion (Christian) you don't have a high bar to cross. Just believe, no deeds or acts are required. That is a high ROI trade either way. [Edit: I am not endorsing a specific Western Religion, I'm giving an example. I…

This idea is called Pascal's wager.

What if what G*d really wants is for people not to believe in G*d and those that do are sent to hell? How do you know the mind of G*d?

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#188

Post by taraskuzyk »

I would really appreciate it if someone could help me understand what the last few sentences of it meant, it kind of flew over my head:

"So I guess this is kind of an argument in favor of humility, or against open-mindedness. If you have high openness to experience (and if you read this without a gun to your head, you probably do) you might wonder why so many people have low openness. Maybe this is part of why."

What is "this is part of why" referring to, the entire article? I just don't really see how any of it would lead people to be less open minded

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#189

Post by veqz »

czbond wrote: post #178

Even if G*d didn't exist, one probably can't prove either way. So, from a risk/reward payoff, it seems believing is a higher payoff than not. And from a purely emotionless approach, if you're a Western religion (Christian) you don't have a high bar to cross. Just believe, no deeds or acts are required. That is a high ROI trade either way. [Edit: I am not endorsing a specific Western Religion, I'm giving an example. I…

Pascal's wager.

But the big flaw there is rather straightforward: which god? Is worshiping a false god better or worse than not worshiping at all?

Should one avoid eating pork in case the Jewish/Islamic god is real? Or maybe avoid eating beef in case the Hindu religions are the true ones? Or maybe the Jains have it figured out, and you should really be vegan to be safe? Perhaps the Aztecs were right, and we're way overdue on our sacrifices?

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#190

Post by hutzlibu »

mherdeg wrote: post #54

Reading this gave me a kind of horrifying idea that goes something like: You know about a deadly disease whose most serious outcomes can be avoided by getting a shot. Many members of a group in your society have decided they don't want to get the shot. You are annoyed by the way they talk about a lot of things, including the way they talk about avoiding the shot. They, in turn, call you "smug" for the way your group…

That would be a very, very bad plan we are not talking about, because it would make people so radical, that in the end they rather shoot people of the other tribe, than getting the shot. (and that already happened)

It would make them form secret circles, where they only talk or listen to each other further radicalising themself. And they do not have a choice, because they have their dogma of vaccine == poison - so they feel pushed to connect stronger in their own circles of "awakened minds".

And with the deadly disease not at all deadly enough to kill them all out - this "no talk about plan" will just make them stronger effectivly.

Before they were just weirdos spread out. Now the weirdos are organizing and arming themself.

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