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AWS down again?

aws.amazon.com

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Re: AWS down again?

#181

Post by y4mi »

rstupek wrote: post #101
y4mi wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if you can manage more uptime on your own than through the cloud (which I doubt) Getting higher uptime is super easy for smallish inhouse deployments. You just don't install any updates and let the server run, trusting your VPN to shield you from possible security issues. The maintenance burden is the reason why people often prefer the cloud services, not the uptime. Because maintaining the instance with updat…

That is true. But hope a drive by ddos doesn't pick you that day!

How do the attackers ddos an inhouse deployment that cannot be accessed from the internet without joining a VPN?

They can try to saturate the VPN host maybe, but that's going to be challenging considering that it's going to be limited to connection requests without valid credentials.

and these are likely set to be ignored on multiple failed attempts through fail2ban or similar tooling

Re: AWS down again?

#182

Post by organic_popcorn »

gerbilly wrote: post #117
koprulusector wrote: post #84

I expect better of the community here. All it takes is a chance to take a cheap shot at one of the “big boys” and then all of a sudden the weasels come scampering out of the wood work. Seriously, those commenting “oh boy! Time to rethink this whole cloud thing!” You’re either so new to this stuff to have no experience to remember the days before cloud, you’re trolling because you’re high on nostalgia remembering the…

Well at least you said please, however: I have built and run my own infrastructure from the ground up, and I've been made to transition to the cloud. The experience hasn't been great. It may simply be sour 'grapes' because, after all the expertise a whole generation has built up learning UNIX, and all the internet protocols (DNS, ARP, Email, reading RFCs, networking, routing) we get told that all that old stuff is ju…

> The experience hasn't been great. It may simply be sour 'grapes' because, after all the expertise a whole generation has built up learning UNIX, and all the internet protocols (DNS, ARP, Email, reading RFCs, networking, routing) we get told that all that old stuff is just 'legacy,' and that we should retool around amazon's proprietary services instead.

Losing skills you worked on for years is just part of this space. We are continually building on new abstractions so that we can focus on building solutions.

This really feels like a rant of kids these days. SCRUM doesn’t mean you can’t do upfront design.

Re: AWS down again?

#183

Post by gerbilly »

gtirloni wrote: post #168
gerbilly wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy, if you say so. I haven't found it too helpful when dealing with AWS and the serverless trend, whose popularity is really just based on price and economics, not technical superiority. Serverless turns every simple system into a distributed system with the number of failure modes now multiplied by ten. That sounds like fun. I do know how to use serverless for the record, I just think it's an overhyped,…

You just moved the goal post from "the cloud" to "serveless". Anyway, this discussion is full of overgeneralizations that are not useful. I'm abstaining from further comments.

I'm not moving anything, just augmenting my point. Reread my comment and do s/serverless/cloud/ if you want, I still stand behind it either way.

Re: AWS down again?

#184

Post by Thaxll »

ziddoap wrote: post #81
Thaxll wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because everything works fine? So a landing page does not work you need to put defcon 3?

How on earth is putting a little red X or whatever next to the service that isn't working, when it isn't working, defcon 3?

Landing page is not on the aws status page.

Re: AWS down again?

#185

Post by gerbilly »

unethical_ban wrote: post #180
koprulusector wrote: post #84

I expect better of the community here. All it takes is a chance to take a cheap shot at one of the “big boys” and then all of a sudden the weasels come scampering out of the wood work. Seriously, those commenting “oh boy! Time to rethink this whole cloud thing!” You’re either so new to this stuff to have no experience to remember the days before cloud, you’re trolling because you’re high on nostalgia remembering the…

You're correct that the knee jerk reactions are a bit over the top, but what is so interesting is how little the benefits of cloud are discussed here on HN. People who haven't used cloud native services think it's just EC2 and someone else's computer. But the idea of compute and data all being controlled through a single set of APIs, controlled by the same security syntaxes, is pretty incredible. Of course I'm a fan…

> controlled by the same company

FTFY

Re: AWS down again?

#186

Post by justapassenger »

gerbilly wrote: post #117
koprulusector wrote: post #84

I expect better of the community here. All it takes is a chance to take a cheap shot at one of the “big boys” and then all of a sudden the weasels come scampering out of the wood work. Seriously, those commenting “oh boy! Time to rethink this whole cloud thing!” You’re either so new to this stuff to have no experience to remember the days before cloud, you’re trolling because you’re high on nostalgia remembering the…

Well at least you said please, however: I have built and run my own infrastructure from the ground up, and I've been made to transition to the cloud. The experience hasn't been great. It may simply be sour 'grapes' because, after all the expertise a whole generation has built up learning UNIX, and all the internet protocols (DNS, ARP, Email, reading RFCs, networking, routing) we get told that all that old stuff is ju…

> The current generation couldn't invent the internet.

As an old fart myself, this is very cheap argument. Old generation wasn’t superior. Old generation couldn’t invent transistor, how useless we are!

You always move up the stack as tech progress and that’s a good thing.

Re: AWS down again?

#187

Post by ziddoap »

Thaxll wrote: post #184
ziddoap wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth is putting a little red X or whatever next to the service that isn't working, when it isn't working, defcon 3?

Landing page is not on the aws status page.

And if it was, how is marking it as down a defcon 3 situation? My point was more that your original comment is a gross exaggeration.

Re: AWS down again?

#188

Post by matt123456789 »

julianlam wrote: post #132
gerbilly wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well at least you said please, however: I have built and run my own infrastructure from the ground up, and I've been made to transition to the cloud. The experience hasn't been great. It may simply be sour 'grapes' because, after all the expertise a whole generation has built up learning UNIX, and all the internet protocols (DNS, ARP, Email, reading RFCs, networking, routing) we get told that all that old stuff is ju…

That's an interesting position to take, because I imagine if a team of developers decided to invent the internet in a vacuum today, it'd be a hell of a lot more secure than the "let's hope nobody uses this protocol maliciously" attitude prevalent in the early days of the internet. Not that that is a bad thing, but just something to think about.

People do think about it. RFCs are still being written and revised by people daily. IETF, W3C, and others are publishing new standards like QUIC. We understand the risks a lot better now than when those original RFCs were written because the world has changed a lot since then, and in no small part because of them.

Re: AWS down again?

#189

Post by snovv_crash »

organic_popcorn wrote: post #182
gerbilly wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well at least you said please, however: I have built and run my own infrastructure from the ground up, and I've been made to transition to the cloud. The experience hasn't been great. It may simply be sour 'grapes' because, after all the expertise a whole generation has built up learning UNIX, and all the internet protocols (DNS, ARP, Email, reading RFCs, networking, routing) we get told that all that old stuff is ju…

> The experience hasn't been great. It may simply be sour 'grapes' because, after all the expertise a whole generation has built up learning UNIX, and all the internet protocols (DNS, ARP, Email, reading RFCs, networking, routing) we get told that all that old stuff is just 'legacy,' and that we should retool around amazon's proprietary services instead. Losing skills you worked on for years is just part of this spac…

The entirety of StackOverflow runs on something like 4 machines. Abstraction layers are expensive, and having to learn scaling methodologies unnecessarily when a better choice of upfront technology would render it unnecessary is very un-agile.

Re: AWS down again?

#190

Post by bob1029 »

tinalumfoil wrote: post #56
SCHiM wrote: post #21

I think this adds some momentum to the pendulum swinging back the other way. Maybe cloud teams can patch your services better than your in-house team can (See 2 critical issues in Azure the last 3 months, _caused_ by MS itself). Maybe the cloud has a higher uptime than your on-premise infrastructure (see the AWS, Azure outages). Make sure to compare the actual outage time v.s. the stats doctored by various political…

Even if you can manage more uptime on your own than through the cloud (which I doubt), being on the cloud means downtime is correlated with downtime of other services. That's usually a good thing. Your customers will be more understanding if your outage is part if a wider outage that makes national news. Any services you integrate with are likely down too. If two services with 99% uncorrelated uptime together drops t…

I'd rather have control over my circumstances than the ability to assign blame for them.

"my outage means the customer is probably also down so they maybe don't care" is not a viable way to run a business in my mind.

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