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How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#181

Post by scrollaway »

zionic wrote: post #163
scrollaway wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NJB is not an "outrage" channel, that is utterly absurd. It's an information channel that mostly shows you how things work in the Netherlands and makes the case that it's a better way than the idiotic car-centric north American way. If you're outraged after watching his videos, it's not his fault, it's the fault of your city planners.

I’m mostly outraged that the YouTube algorithm keeps showing me his crap just because I like cities skylines. His content is trash and despite consistently disliking it YouTube just won’t learn.

Dislikes have little effect on whether a channel is recommended, only individual videos and the related videos to that specific one. Also to dislike a video you need to click it in the first place, which tells YouTube you potentially like content of this sort but the individual videos aren't up to your expectations so it's going to keep trying.

As another poster said there is a way to get YouTube to stop recommending the channel to you. Use that instead.

Sidenote: i think it's hilarious that it's consistently the car lovers that think NJB is trash. Loving cars immediately must mean that his high quality, well researched content is "trash". Not something you personally dislike, not something you disagree with, no no, the worst trash in the world.

I guess disliking that channel is a useful shibboleth to spot the guy driving an SUV.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#182

Post by pcmoney »

refurb wrote: post #129
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

This is so out of touch it's kind of offensive. Unlike you, most people struggle to make ends meet, are happy they have a job and can provide for their family. The upper-class "let's build architecture that inspires" screams "I have more money and time than I know what to do with". It's like looking down at people who eat at McDonald's (I got your reference!) with comments like "these folks wouldn't know good food if…

We as a society, in many aspects, used to eat AND build better when we were poorer. It is a matter of desire and priority.

Also McDonalds is only cheaper if you’re in a food desert. Which areas that rely on stroads rarely are.

Also, notice how the building around stroads and most “modern” buildings get knocked down and rebuilt every 10 years? Seems like something only a rich society could afford to do.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#183

Post by pcmoney »

vdqtp3 wrote: post #138
32kfjh23 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does someone saying that things could be built better come off as high level elitism? I’ve stayed in small European towns where they have the cultural amenities of an American city perhaps five to six times its population. Normal people can live good, healthy lives there. Normal people struggling to survive while driving everywhere with few healthy options in sight is a manufactured issue.

> overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo is elitism. Even if it's right, it's elitism.

If our options are trying to remain status quo or becoming “elite” (as if thats a thing) well then I am not picking status quo. We should build things that inspire is what I am saying and yes I used a visual imagery of the least inspiring most tragically basic thing (that someone willfully chooses to become and do) that came to mind.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#184

Post by scrollaway »

seoulmetro wrote: post #171
scrollaway wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NJB is not an "outrage" channel, that is utterly absurd. It's an information channel that mostly shows you how things work in the Netherlands and makes the case that it's a better way than the idiotic car-centric north American way. If you're outraged after watching his videos, it's not his fault, it's the fault of your city planners.

It is an outrage channel. >It's an information channel that mostly shows you how things work in the Netherlands and makes the case that it's a better way than the idiotic car-centric north American way. Yes. Comparing apples to oranges. What an outrage! My apples have less vitamin C! How dare they. >If you're outraged after watching his videos I'm not. But the majority who do watch the video are. It's his fault. The…

If it's an outrage channel how come I'm not outraged after watching all of his content?

What i am is pleased to have learned a lot about dutch urban design. If anything outrages me, it's how you keep insisting this channel "compares" anything when all it does is showcases dutch cities, and once in a while complains about specific issues in his hometown of London ON.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#185

Post by fingerlocks »

w0mbat wrote: post #172

I have a house in Sunnyvale, California a few blocks from El Camino Real. It's the ultimate stroad, hundreds of miles long and lined with thriving businesses and I love it. It's getting really quite clean and quiet now a ridiculous proportion of traffic around here is Teslas.

I used to travel regularly to my company’s satellite office in Sunnyvale. My hotel was less than a mile away, so I walked the 20 minutes instead of opting for a rental car. Because that’s what I do in Seattle.

I’m certain that I was the only pedestrian around for miles.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#186

Post by bobthepanda »

arsome wrote: post #115
dougmwne wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The itty-bitty bits of America that have any kind of walkable community are incredibly expensive. It’s basically the equivalent of avoiding mediocre American factory food by doing all your shopping at Whole Foods. Why does it have to be a rare luxury to taste what the Europeans have in overflowing abundance?

Because what they have flowing in abundance is a loss in many other ways. Public transit is a generally a worse experience in all but the most urban of places, and even then there's often enough problems that make it significantly less desirable. Biking in the winter? Doable, but also pretty miserable in much of the world. People like personal transportation and big detached houses with yards. Car-centric cities are…

The problem is not really necessarily that the car centric city exists, though it certainly has externalities related to health and the climate.

The problem is that only the car centric city exists. Nice walkable places are in extremely short supply and fetch a premium, and so there exist people who buy into the detached house, car centric lifestyle because it is the only thing available at their price point. It is illegal to build the traditional way in most of the country’s land. And making it simply legal to build does not mean that the people who like this lifestyle will be forced to densify.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#187

Post by ehnto »

robbedpeter wrote: post #112
dghughes wrote: post #105

My city just installed three roundabouts each about 500m from each. Three in a row on a four land (two each way) road. I'm all for roundabouts but it looks a mess. Some of the outer lanes end too without any sign to indicate that it ends. Stroads are designed by busybodies who are given too much money. I used to be able to go over a small bridge that's over a small stream and turn left to get to my aunt's house. The…

Drive over the meridian, gouge the greenway, and leave tire streaks repeatedly. Then have a friend take pictures and start bugging your local politicians about the lack of consistent access. Have them make the point that paying to continually clean up after people will cost more than putting in a comfortable number of access openings. They'll be able to fix it and look like they're saving the city money at the same t…

Like a desire path for cars! Tired of having to drive around the local park? Just drive through it, the council will get the hint!

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#188

Post by cycomanic »

It's interesting how more city planning articles are making their way to HN. I've just been to the Nobel week dialogues yesterday discussing the city of the future (https://www.nobelprize.org/events/nobel-week-dialogue/Gothen...).

For those who have not heard of them, the Nobel week dialogues are discussions, talks with some of the leading experts on a given topic together with Nobel prize winners who have often worked on the same topic since winning the prize. It's a free event, held in either Gothenburg or Stockholm. On the 9th of December every year. But the great thing is that since the pandemic they have started to live stream the event so everyone from around the world can join. I highly recommend everyone to check it out, it is not often that you can see 5 or more nobel prize winners in one place.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#189

Post by danhor »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #90
pcmoney wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it walking or biking? Or is it only healthy if you’re in a couple thousand pound armored living room on wheels?

So as a suburban area, it is generally not optimized for biking as a mode of transportation. Suburbs absolutely cater to cars, and this road is no exception. There are significant and wide-reaching bike trails across the surrounding county, but if you're going to and from work in the area, you have a car, almost exclusively. The very nature of the fact that very little of the surrounding area caters to pedestrian tra…

That's the case for most suburban areas in the US. In places like Germany it's still not great, but there are many more provisions for other modes of travel especially as a pedestrian and they're not unused.

The Netherlands has great bike paths in their suburban areas.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#190

Post by ehnto »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #165
chupchap wrote: post #100

I feel like almost all roads I see in a dense Indian city like Mumbai is a stroad. I don't think a distinct classification of a road and street as defined by strong towns can be made in a city that has heavy occupancy and pre-existing development. Then looking at a state like Kerala that is so urbanised and heavily populated I have seen a lot of houses with gates opening up into a national highway. How can anyone fix…

It sounds exactly like Ho Chi Minh City here in Vietnam. The solution isn't hard -- the government uses imminent domain, takes a few metres of land on each side, and compensates existing owners.

That's usually pretty hard. I guess it depends on your city. But imminent domain can take decades if done with a lot of community backlash.
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