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Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

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Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#181

Post by alignItems »

VictorPath wrote: post #151
alignItems wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are biases on all sides, and it’s often hard to extricate oneself from them to see the facts as they are. You could flip the question and ask why is so much of the world anti-Israel, no matter what? The data on this is that in 2020 the UN adopted 17 resolutions condemning Israel and 6 for the rest of the world. Now it’s possible that Israel is so much worse than the rest of the world, and the US is biased. Or p…

> The data on this is that in 2020 the UN adopted 17 resolutions condemning Israel and 6 for the rest of the world. > Now it’s possible that Israel is so much worse than the rest of the world According to Israel itself, it launched 50 bombing raids in Syria in 2020. Many of the UN resolutions condemning Israel were due to those bombings and other actions Israel has taken vis-a-vis Syria. Including Israel's occupation…

This isn’t a comparison of Israel vs Bhutan with regards to Syria.

The is comparing Israel with the rest of the world combined, across all global conflicts and human rights violations.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#182

Post by LegitShady »

VictorPath wrote: post #93
bawolff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how people can think Israel mass bombed gaza. Israel has one of the largest militaries in the world. If they decided to mass bomb somewhere, it wouldn't be a place anymore. Its not the 1800s. A mass bombing is not something anyone walks away from in the modern world.

Israel launched over 900 attacks on Gaza in May, killed hundreds of Palestinians, and displaced tens of thousands of Palestinians. The UN estimate is 461 housing and commercial units were destroyed by Israel's bombing of Gaza. I don't dispute even more could have been killed by Israel and more destroyed by Israel if the United Nations Security Council did not call for an ending to it and that if that did not happen "…

there were fewer people killed than bombs dropped - it was a highly pinpointed affair beyond any sort of 'mass bombing' terminology, while at the same time the government of gaza WAS mass launching artillery rockets at israeli cities.

Truly upside-down world.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#183

Post by djanogo »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #180

calling them "defenders" of human right implies that there is a war being fought (by Israel) against human rights. I don't believe that this has been adequately demonstrated, therefore i think the title is inflammatory and misleading. Please can you change it, Dang

Disagree, I think title is correct, Israel's forced displacement is human rights issue.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#184

Post by LegitShady »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #135
bawolff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how people can think Israel mass bombed gaza. Israel has one of the largest militaries in the world. If they decided to mass bomb somewhere, it wouldn't be a place anymore. Its not the 1800s. A mass bombing is not something anyone walks away from in the modern world.

But they do walk away from mass bombings. I mean, heck, folks walked away from nukes (most later died of cancer, but not all). More folks survived the hindenberg than died in the crash. And so on. Mass bombings tend to kill folks in the blast areas, but there are a lot of places that aren't directly in the blast. If you destroy one house with a bomb, the surrounding houses will likely have damage but still stand - an…

way fewer people died than bombs dropped. There was no 'mass bombing' - it was all highly pinpointed with roof knocking and warning of people in the area.

The mass launches of artillery rockets against israeli cities was mass bombing, just less effective.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#185

Post by ashtonkem »

LegitShady wrote: post #178
ashtonkem wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and you should. And for those governments who can’t or won’t provide evidence, you should disregard their assertions as baseless and suspect. I mean, why wouldn’t you demand proof? Governments have a long and nasty history of conflating their political interests with security interests, just trusting their assertions seems extremely foolhardy.

because it would compromise means and methods

Tough. The logical consequence of “we can’t show you the proof” is “okay, I don’t believe that you have any”. After all, you would not believe my assertions about fantastical achievements without evidence, and the consequences of that hypothetical are much lower than the state saying it should be able to kill people in the name of “counter terrorism”.

More succinctly; “it would compromise means and methods” is a phenomenal way to cover up shaky or non-existent evidence.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#186

Post by WaitWaitWha »

whimsicalism wrote: post #170
zouhair wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you learn what was said about Mandela.

Seriously. Do people forget the rhetoric around Mandela and the ANC during apartheid South Africa? He was only taken off the terrorist watch list in '08.

Seeing necklacing with your own eyes is something to forget, but cannot.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#187

Post by asadlionpk »

I feel like many pro-Israel commentators here are a coordinated low quality effort to derail conversation using “tactics”. I feel this happens on the daily bases online.

I remember reading about it; Israel’s strategy to train their online citizens to do this.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#189

Post by Viliam1234 »

yonixw wrote: post #146
tartoran wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why those people are protesting? If you only follow the history of the region you’d quickly realize that Israel did (and does) terrorize their neighbors who in turn retaliated and the vicious cycle of vendettas on eachother continues to this day. What is realy cool about Israel is that they’re a democratic country and a large part of their country denounces all this violence, there is a way forward towa…

1) Molotov != Protest 2) > follow the history of the region > terrorize their neighbors Counter example: 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza 2007: Gaza Blockade I do not think we see the history of the region in the same way.

> 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip

If you credit Israel for dismantling the settlements, I think it would make sense to also credit Israel for having built them. Selecting events can make any side seem like the good guys.

This is not meant as a pro-someone or anti-someone argument. You can use the same technique to argue for or against either side.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#190

Post by jjcon »

asadlionpk wrote: post #187

I feel like many pro-Israel commentators here are a coordinated low quality effort to derail conversation using “tactics”. I feel this happens on the daily bases online. I remember reading about it; Israel’s strategy to train their online citizens to do this.

Not everything is a conspiracy, some people might just disagree with you
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