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Next.js 12

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Re: Next.js 12

#181

Post by leodriesch »

nickosmark wrote: post #172

Next.js reinvents so many things that already exist in PHP (also Python, Ruby). Check out for example what is already possible with Symfony in their docs[0]. Next.js "biggest" release just introduced middleware and html rendering with zero client-side js ! What people like in tools like next.js is not the framework itself but the abstraction over infrastructure, using platforms like vercel. Imagine a platform as chea…

I think what is comforting for a lot of people is that they can write isomorphic code that mostly automatically works on the frontend and backend.

IMO React is also an amazing abstraction and I like writing components better than stitching together HTML or other template/DSL based systems.

Re: Next.js 12

#182

Post by jensneuse »

jekude wrote: post #48

If Next.js + Vercel is the leader of the production-ready frontend-as-a-service space, why hasn't a similar leader emerged in the backend-as-a-service space? I would love a clean Vercel-like abstraction on top of standard cloud primitives (functions, queues, events, workflows, etc.) with everything wired up nicely and focused on developer experience. It just seems like AWS is so configuration heavy that it is ripe fo…

I'm the founder of WunderGraph. https://wundergraph.com/ We're doing exactly this. Our philosophy is simple, instead of forcing you into a specific stack, we can "introspect" multiple data sources like GraphQL & REST APIs, MySQL and PostgreSQL, S3 for file storage and OpenID Connect for authentication.

This way you can plug and play any of your existing infrastructure and services and turn them into your own private Firebase.

Finally, because we "introspect" all your data sources, we get end-to-end type safety. We don't just generate an API for you but also a truly type safe client.

Controlling everything from backend to API client allows for a lot of optimizations, e.g. the generated client knows if authentication is required to fire off a Query and therefore waits until the user is authenticated.

If you have any questions or feedback, feel free to join our discord: https://wundergraph.com/discord

We're going OSS 100% soon, exciting times ahead..

Re: Next.js 12

#183

Post by no_wizard »

davedx wrote: post #160
no_wizard wrote: post #136

This is really amazing, is the end result here that they are ultimately opting out of webpack in favor of SWC? It also compiles modules and such. Will have to take a look at the underlying infrastructure here! Interestingly I think that’s the major win of SWC over esbuild: you get a Babel like plug-in ecosystem for AST transformations and such. Downside: there currently isn’t a way to run asynchronous transforms, muc…

How many extent build-systems are there now for JS/TS? It's getting insane.

Realistically?

Just Babel, SWC, ESBuild, and TypeScript's own compiler.

I'm not really aware of anything else with serious momentum, or isn't simply built upon one of these projects,

SWC itself if I recall correctly was built to address speed problems with Babel

The other speed bottleneck I've found is postcss, which SWC is also trying to address with their own new CSS parser, which is the CSS parser they extended in Next.js 12, from what I can tell

ESBuild has also grown out of this, but takes a more opinionated direction

This isn't the gulp / grunt -> browserify -> webpack / rollup churn of the past in my opinion. These kinds of tools are much more targeting on being around in the long haul

Re: Next.js 12

#184

Post by 1023bytes »

AccountAccount1 wrote: post #173
sbacic wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using Hasura for that right now to handle the API + database part. Fairly satisfied with GraphQL API generators so far - they get the ball running quickly and take over the boring CRUD parts so that I don't have to.

Hasura is at that level of being a full-featured back-end platform. I think that the best way to get started with Hasura is https://www.nhost.io

Why not use Hasura Cloud and also support the developers?

Re: Next.js 12

#185

Post by leerob »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #59
leerob wrote: post #2

Hey everyone, Lee from Vercel here! Happy to answer any questions about Next.js 12. Personally, I'm extremely excited for the new Rust compiler.

Hey Lee! Loved the new features and your session on edge. One further-future question - would react server components ever be able to execute on the edge or will those always run from the datacenter you've deployed to? And regions - Cloudflare Workers offers 44 regions in North America and Vercel currently offers 4. Does your team have any plans to add some more edges around the world to bring the speed benefits clos…

Yes, the Hacker News demo shown does run at the Edge (using Vercel Edge Functions) when deployed. If you self host, it would run on your server of choice.

Vercel doesn't have 4 regions, we have 17 :)

Re: Next.js 12

#186

Post by billiam »

jekude wrote: post #48

If Next.js + Vercel is the leader of the production-ready frontend-as-a-service space, why hasn't a similar leader emerged in the backend-as-a-service space? I would love a clean Vercel-like abstraction on top of standard cloud primitives (functions, queues, events, workflows, etc.) with everything wired up nicely and focused on developer experience. It just seems like AWS is so configuration heavy that it is ripe fo…

If you like the idea of getting developers out of the backend plumbing and repair business you might want to check out https://stepzen.com (I work there). We agree that APIs and the data sources behind them need to be modernized the way that companies like Vercel and Netlify are modernizing frontends. Our platform is built on top of GraphQL to give developers that one-stop shop for any and all data sources; we'll keep your API fast and secure. Next week we're going to release a new product to make that even easier.

Re: Next.js 12

#187

Post by leerob »

alasano wrote: post #177
nickosmark wrote: post #172

Next.js reinvents so many things that already exist in PHP (also Python, Ruby). Check out for example what is already possible with Symfony in their docs[0]. Next.js "biggest" release just introduced middleware and html rendering with zero client-side js ! What people like in tools like next.js is not the framework itself but the abstraction over infrastructure, using platforms like vercel. Imagine a platform as chea…

I think that people who like JavaScript are happy with getting the abstractions you mentioned. If building a vercel for PHP was such an obvious idea, I imagine someone would jump on it.

Fun fact, you can actually write PHP function on Vercel :)

https://github.com/juicyfx/vercel-php

Re: Next.js 12

#188

Post by gherkinnn »

burggraf wrote: post #153
gherkinnn wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vercel does come with a Supabase integration: https://vercel.com/integrations/supabase And from my limited understanding, Supabase is psql with extras.

Supabase developer here. Supabase gives you full PostgreSQL access as well as a REST api interface (Postgrest) with integrated authentication (based on GoTrue), S3-based storage also integrated to authentication and integrated with your PostgreSQL instance, an easy dashboard interface and a bunch more. There’s a generous free tier and a hosted option that’s ready to scale immediately. Let us know if you have any more…

I keep going back to your page. Very interested but lack the time and energy to build anything right now.

Re: Next.js 12

#189

Post by jkaplan »

jekude wrote: post #48

If Next.js + Vercel is the leader of the production-ready frontend-as-a-service space, why hasn't a similar leader emerged in the backend-as-a-service space? I would love a clean Vercel-like abstraction on top of standard cloud primitives (functions, queues, events, workflows, etc.) with everything wired up nicely and focused on developer experience. It just seems like AWS is so configuration heavy that it is ripe fo…

1. I'm not sure about this premise: "leader of the production-ready frontend-as-a-service space." They def seem like a good fit for some frontends -- but they're certainly not a good fit for ALL frontends generally. (For example, sufficiently small sites should probably just go with static hosting, and sufficiently dynamic web apps still will want a SPA.)

2. At the end of the day, web backends are just a lot more varied and complex than web frontends. On the technical side, a web frontend is always just bundles of JS, HTML, CSS, that have to be transmitted to the client. And functionally, there's a relatively large set of common things they pretty much all do (routing, serve images, etc.) Therefore, it's relatively simple to build an opinionated framework that can still cover a good number of situations.

By contrast, a "backend" is really a lot of different things (like the four you mention, plus various types of storage and caching), which can use many different languages/technologies, all working together in different ways. It's hard to conceive of a universal "backend" framework that could cover all of that complexity.

3. There are some efforts to do this kind of thing (to some extent). Google's Firebase and AWS Amplify are the two that I think are closest -- they try to give low-configuration generic backend building blocks. (I'm currently using Amplify for a project -- still too early to tell. It also works with Next.js!) There's also platform-as-a-service options like Heroku.

Re: Next.js 12

#190

Post by Rauchg »

dstaley wrote: post #31
capableweb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it compare to esbuild? Seems they both want to achieve exactly the same thing, but somehow it's two different efforts.

One thing to keep in mind is that SWC is a compiler, whereas esbuild is a bundler. SWC has limited bundling capabilities last time I checked, so if you're looking for something to traverse your code and generate a single file (or multiple files at dynamic import boundaries, etc.) esbuild is what you want. Next.js bundles with webpack, so it uses SWC in lieu of Babel (or the TypeScript Compiler).

We are going all in on swcpack (spack) as well. One of the benefits of swc-as-platform is the rich ecosystem of tooling we will see develop from it. Transforming, bundling, prettifying, optimizing… all at peak performance.
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