Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ubuntu 21.10

ubuntu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 295 posts

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#181

Post by rbanffy »

_xy8h wrote: post #27
aborsy wrote: post #12

Over a decade of Ubuntu use, could not be happier! I remember in 2000s, I had to edit /etc/ text files to set up internet etc. Nowadays everything works out of box. All sorts of peripherals and hardware is recognized automatically. High quality free open source software is available for most stuff I need. The freedom to choose software and customize Linux, if required, is amazing! Am I missing anything ignoring close…

Anecdotal but no less amusing: I upgraded my desktop and used the extra parts to rebuild my Windows 10 system, the nearly cutting edge hardware on the newly rebuilt main desktop all worked when I reinstalled xUbuntu 20.04 on the new SSD. The hand me down parts, while not ancient, were still old enough that I had expected Windows 10 to be able to support it when I installed it on the SSD for that machine. Wifi and Web…

The immense majority of Windows installs are on computers that come with it. Because of that, OEMs make sure all bits and pieces they sell at the same time work with it.

Also, that’s why even printers need to come with a CD of Windows drivers (probably for the imaginary CD drive that no longer comes with the computer)

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#182

Post by jeroenhd »

capableweb wrote: post #117
rlpb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You described third party repositories and mismatching Python versions. That is a hacked up system, by definition.

Yes, because Ubuntu doesn't ship everything you need, third-party repositories are needed for my day-to-day job. None of the packages I get from that are overwriting existing software from official repositories, but still Ubuntu recommends turning those off, not sure how that should break an upgrade. On the other hand, my Arch installation runs with tons of custom software, with repositories and more added to it, but…

I use Manjaro and different Python versions alongside each other regularly break my updates because all of them want to be the system python3 binary at the same time. I've had to nuke and reinstall tons of software because of version clashes, sometimes needing me to cast arcane package manager spells which every manual tells you to never ever do. Hell, a lot of really common AUR packages or dependencies sometimes just plain fail to compile. That's the danger of the AUR, I guess, but there's no real difference between the AUR and PPAs/Ubuntu repositories. At least Manjaro pins packages for a short while before releasing them onto my laptop, I can't imagine the stress an average Arch update would cause me.

Ubuntu is not a system designed for running multiple versions of packages like you want it to. You can make it do it if you really want to, but you can't expect the Ubuntu developers to provide support for your unique use case. They give you one version of Python, the version that the _entire system_ expects, and if you're not happy with that, you should probably move away from Ubuntu. It can't and probably won't satisfy your day-to-day job's requirements. Try a rolling distro instead, or run the Nix package manager next to the system package manager so you can work around the lack of support Ubuntu provides you.

In my opinion, it's a lot better to abort the upgrade than to knowingly break your system and make you suffer through the recovery process. Sure, the installer could ignore the problem, or remove your carefully crafted Python setup, but you'd still be complaining if it did that and you had to reconfigure your entire machine again.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#183

Post by marcodiego »

n8cpdx wrote: post #148
reilly3000 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a long time Ubuntu user and haven’t really shopped for other distros. Any recommendations besides Debian?

If you want to use a multitouch trackpad fluently, Elementary is is the only game in town. It has macOS-level support which is pretty cool.

https://youtu.be/aKlmV-EiqVk?t=45

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#184

Post by robocat »

jeroenhd wrote: post #170
NGRhodes wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those vulnerabilities have patches available ?

From what I can tell, the problem with these packages is that the security fixes need to be backported into earlier versions of packages because upstream fixed them in major version releases. Chromium 90 does not contain all security fixes found in Chromium 93 so there are tons of CVEs open on Debian systems still rocking Chromium 90. Most packages have fixes available but Debian doesn't have the manpower to backport…

> XScreenSaver. I'd link to his rant about it, but his website shows some angry rant when HN is in the referer header.

Here’s the link I think: https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/04/i-would-like-debian-to-stop...

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#185

Post by jeroenhd »

veeblevee wrote: post #18

I love Ubuntu but maybe not snaps so much.

Ugh, totally this. Upgrading Ubuntu to 21.04 broke IntelliJ's Chromium debugger because chromium moved from apt to snap (DESPITE installing it through apt!) with the extra sandboxing rules.

The proprietary nature of snap and being unable to install alternative sources without partnering with Canonical/uploading a public package drives me mad.

I've upgraded my desktop install from 16.04 all the way to 21.04 without any issues and I plan on upgrading to 21.10 later this week. However, the moment the setup collapses, I'm moving to something Arch-based. I don't want to deal with snaps and the snap problem is only going to get worse as time moves on. If the snap package manager was completely open source and had self-hostable repositories, I'd consider staying, but right now I might as well use the Windows Store/winget if only the client's source is open and alternate package sources are decidedly not a supported use case.

I've heard good stories about EndeavourOS and my laptop is already running Manjaro. I've got a feeling I might be switching to one of those before the next Ubuntu LTS.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#186

Post by tlrobinson »

aborsy wrote: post #12

Over a decade of Ubuntu use, could not be happier! I remember in 2000s, I had to edit /etc/ text files to set up internet etc. Nowadays everything works out of box. All sorts of peripherals and hardware is recognized automatically. High quality free open source software is available for most stuff I need. The freedom to choose software and customize Linux, if required, is amazing! Am I missing anything ignoring close…

So you’re saying 2021 is the year of Linux desktop?

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#187

Post by in_mice »

eecc wrote: post #108
vladev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be surprised, but it's RedHat that made most of that happen. A lot of the important Linux projects are developed mostly by them - Gnome, Wayland, NetworkManager, Pipewire, flatpak, etc. Ubuntu, on the other hand, seem to like to do many things their way. Like aggressive patching. I recall fontconfig being heavily patched from upstream. Then we have Mir (now almost abandoned), Unity (abandoned), snap (flatpak,…

Well: * NetworkManager is a dumpster fire. * Wayland is 10 years in the making and it's still barely out of alpha and still missing crucial features such as fractional and consistent scaling. * Pipewire is a welcome attempt to mitigate another source of grief, Pulse Audio. * Gnome? Lets not get started... Please. RedHat has been a boon to the Linux community but it's lack of - how can I put it tactfully - design tast…

You're not wrong on wayland. I remember hearing people talking about how great wayland was gonna be a decade ago.

Gnome and Network Manager are fine though. My XPS 15 wifi has been supported for the last three years without any issues.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#188

Post by icedchai »

I've been running Ubuntu on servers for over 12 years. It generally works great... until you upgrade it to the next major release. I haven't had a smooth Ubuntu upgrade in years. During one upgrade, the system lost the default route. There was some bug with multiple NICs. Another time, it decided to rename all the network interfaces, requiring a bunch of manual reconfiguration. Then for some reason my boot device got switched (perhaps this was really a UEFI issue?) and the system failed to restart.

Some of these systems have 3 or 4 NICs, multiple HDs and NVMEs in RAID configurations. Is this that exotic a configuration?

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#189

Post by in_mice »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #50
beefjerkins wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest, have you tried other distributions? Perhaps Debian based like Linux Mint / Pop OS, or others like Manjaro? What keeps you using Ubuntu after all these years?

I've personally tried some of those. Ubuntu simply works. I hate most of their defaults, most add bugs, Ubuntu is what most cloud providers use if you're a dev, every software provider targets Ubuntu if they target Linux, and so on. You can install Ubuntu and it'll work. Easy. No other distro I've tried (Fedora, Suse, Manjaro, Mint, Mageia) is as easy.

I've had driver issues with things like arch and debian. I maybe enjoyed digging into that a decade ago. I don't anymore.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#190

Post by systemvoltage »

I'd love to see Ubuntu being the defacto standard for OS, far better than the fashion-driven MacOS and telemetry-driven Windows. But, I am pretty much against the self-congratulating rhetoric in this thread. Everytime I use Ubuntu, it hangs up. Just today, I tried to install new fonts and the Font manager just froze. The basic UI framework has so many hangups that it is impossible to imagine saying anything positive about it unless 1) People have no expectations 2) Haven't used MacOS or Windows 3) People have low standards for excellence.

That said, this is an open source effort by volunteers. The fact that we have OSS that even come to compare with commercial offering spending billions is amazing and also an indictment that it will never surpass it. Especially with Big Tech making their own custom chips with close integration in the OS.

Someone in SV should start a Gitlab-like venture, but for operating system instead of git. VC-backed and open source.

Post reply on HN