PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49 • Hacker News Board

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#181

Post by NullPrefix » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #153

nicoburns wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before this law in the UK it was mostly small businesses (e.g. local independent grocery stores) charging 50p per transaction. I think the law was probably to encourage uptake of contactless payments which are targeted at these small transactions. It's still legal here to have a minimum transaction value for paying with card, which some businesses use. But since the pandemic it's become more common to find businesses…

I occasionally had disagreements with shop owners because I didn't have cash and I wanted them to add the payment fee manually so I could pay by card and actually - you know - buy stuff. A lot simply wouldn't - like I was attempting fraud or something.

You're trying to use the workflow outside of the happy path.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#182

Post by oneplane » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #100

danieldisu wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key features of these apps is that you only need the phone in order to make transfers, that allows you to avoid asking for the account number to anyone.

On the other hand, account numbers are not a significant 'secret' or something like that. They are just as 'safe' to share as phone numbers.

Replying to myself here since the edit time expired: this does of course depend on where you live; in the context of the thread and the while fintech popularity in various places around the world and the EU not really having much use for that, this is because you can safely transfer money around without the risk of someone abusing your 'secret bank number'.

In the US and probably other places as well this is more like an SSN where just having the number allows you to do all sorts of (criminal) abusive things.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#183

Post by oarsinsync » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #153

nicoburns wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before this law in the UK it was mostly small businesses (e.g. local independent grocery stores) charging 50p per transaction. I think the law was probably to encourage uptake of contactless payments which are targeted at these small transactions. It's still legal here to have a minimum transaction value for paying with card, which some businesses use. But since the pandemic it's become more common to find businesses…

I occasionally had disagreements with shop owners because I didn't have cash and I wanted them to add the payment fee manually so I could pay by card and actually - you know - buy stuff. A lot simply wouldn't - like I was attempting fraud or something.

I once tried to buy a beer in a small corner shop. The beer was 2€. The minimum charge for card payments was 5€. I agreed to pay 5€. The shopkeeper refused to charge me 5€.

I walked out without my beer, sad, and wishing I'd remembered to carry some cash that day.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#184

Post by erikrothoff » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

And they charge a 5% currency conversion fee for moving money from your account. Even moving USD to another USD account they charge 3% ”fee” for doing nothing.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#185

Post by AdrianB1 » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #99

tinus_hn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with iDeal is that there is 0 consumer protection. If you pay for an order using a credit card and it’s a scam, you do a chargeback. If you pay for an order using iDeal and it’s a scam, the money is gone the moment you pay. There is no way to get the money back.

I love how Americans are totally fine with paying a tax on every transaction they make in order to protect random people from occurrences of financial fraud, yet are vehemently opposed to exactly the same system for healthcare. I mean, rationally you would expect the opposite: people typically don't do $10k+ transactions using credit cards, so a worst case consequence of fraud you're not protected from is quite small…

In term of insurance systems, the 2 are extremely different, so the comparison is not justified.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#186

Post by arnvald » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

krageon wrote: post #146

arnvald wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that, too. The only thing that bothers me is that Maestro cards can't be used for online payments, so if I buy something from other countries (where shops don't support iDeal) I still need to use credit card, and support for credit cards in NL is pretty bad. Btw these high transaction fees are the reason why loyalty programs are so good in US while so bad in EU. EU caps credit card fees at around 1.5%, while i…

> Maestro cards can't be used for online payments They can, for example ~15 years ago I used a maestro card to pay for a subscription to Sony. All they needed was a card number and an address (the latter for tax reasons, that is mandatory).

That's interesting, are there different types of Maestro cards? I also had one years ago, but it didn't have CVV so I could not pay online. My current one does not even have a real card number, it has just my bank account number on it.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#187

Post by smoyer » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

mchusma wrote: post #163

konschubert wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To PayPal's credit, this was their first rate increase in a very long time if not forever. There is no reason to assume that rates should go up at all, it's not like the % you take needs to be corrected for inflation.

The opposite in fact. All costs should decline over time.

When you fail to attract new customers but your shareholders continue to expect their holding's value to increase, a price increase will temporarily show gains on your balance sheet. The downside is that you've also provided additional impetuous for your customers to consider alternatives.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#188

Post by simonsarris » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

damsta wrote: post #109

PayPal is awful and I am not talking about the fee. The developer experience is so disgusting. Their developer portal is completely useless, it does not show any data. They have 5 different documentation pages about one thing, each one is more outdated than the other. If you want to onboard merchants on your platform you will have no way of seeing the connected accounts. Their button that you can integrate on your we…

You also get rate-limited in the sandbox just for clicking around too fast. WTF is the point of a sandbox!?

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#189

Post by xur17 » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

> Looking back, I have to imagine that this 3%+ tax on all American transactions must put a weight on the system.

I 100% agree. It's pretty absurd that all merchants have to pay a 3% fee on the vast majority of their transactions with no real alternative.

And I realize crypto gets a bad rap around here, but I really do think stablecoins offer an interesting way around this. It's an open standard that anyone can build on top of and integrate with which means we could have a healthy market with many payment processors, and wallet providers. Even if we ended up with the likes of coinbase, kraken, etc custodying the majority of user funds, the fact that users would have options, and any startup could integrate would help a ton with maintaining a competitive arena and driving prices down.

(and before someone yells "crypto fees", there are already solutions that can drive these well below $0.01 if we're just sending payments between 2 parties)

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#190

Post by unethical_ban » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

Urgo wrote: post #11

This was actually announced in a easy to miss email with the subject "Upcoming change to your account" sent on June 30 2021. It did get a little press that day but on the fee increase day I saw little reporting. These changes went into effect on August 2nd 2021. Here is a PDF that has a breakdown showing all the changes that happened that day [1] To PayPal's credit, this was their first rate increase in a very long t…

"Upcoming changes to your account" - What anti-pattern hogwash.

"Upcoming changes to our fee structure"