For Tesla, Facebook and Others, AI’s Flaws Are Getting Harder to Ignore

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #147

sharkjacobs wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it worth killing n random people, for a uncalculated and unknowable chance of saving n+m lives in the future. The pool of people randomly selected to die have not volunteered or consented to be part of this project. There are ways to achieve the same lifesaving endgoal without the upfront sacrifice of lives. The part which really strikes me as morally reprehensible is where the companies are saving money on test…

> Is it worth killing n random people, for a uncalculated and unknowable chance of saving n+m lives in the future. The pool of people randomly selected to die have not volunteered or consented to be part of this project. This reasoning renders any governmental policy change of any sort impermissible. It isn't coherent to apply these forms of deontological ethics to state action - a random set of people will die with…

Post by _nalply » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

gremloni wrote: post #182

rootusrootus wrote: post #76

I've lost count of the number of people I've talked to who think that neural nets means we've created brains that will just magically learn how to do new tasks. So we just need more training and then automated is just around the corner. Tesla, et al do not have the luxury of ignorance to explain that away however, they know what the technology is and is not currently capable of, but they don't want to admit it.

I’ve been following FSD from v8 all the way to the current v10.1. It’s nearly magical and it’s only improving. I can see it being pretty rock solid within the next 3-5 years.

Post by LightG » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 8:19 AM UTC

rpadovani wrote: post #117

LightG wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take 0.1% chance of death which I (arguably) can control, over a 0.001% chance of death which I absolutely cannot control at all. It's so clear to me. Yes, taking a plane is similar, but I only take that risk a couple of times a year. The 0.1% (to me) is a probability number as I have some control over each event. The probability is so low that it likely never will happen. The 0.001% number is an eventual outcom…

That's not how statistic works

Post by candiodari » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #116

candiodari wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's doesn't seem true. In the short term AI algorithms clearly understand why they do things. Yes, the time horizon is obviously shorter (not in games, but in the real world, sure), but the same can often be said of humans. If you see humans responding to animals that don't use eyes (e.g. bats, insects) fuckups are a constant. We are very bad at interacting with anything that doesn't have something similar to our…

> And third, the world has almost entirely been rebuilt to compensate for human observation flaws. I don't entirely agree with what I think your point is. Fundamentally, humans are pretty great at using context to work their way through a variety of unfamiliar situations. The work we do on intersections is about tuning. Even in a bad intersection with horrible flaws, 99.9% or more of all humans navigating it will be…

Post by diggernet » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

Domenic_S wrote: post #128

jcranmer wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a per-mile-driven basis, Tesla's self-driving accident rate is somewhere in the region of 5-10× that of human drivers, IIRC. And keep in mind that the self-driving here is already in a state of selection bias where it's more likely to be used in safer conditions (i.e., fully-grade-separated highway driving in clear conditions, rather than dense urban environments in inclement weather).

Maybe you were thinking the autopilot accident rate being 5-10x _less_ than human drivers? > In the 2nd quarter, we recorded one crash for every 4.41 million miles driven in which drivers were using Autopilot technology (Autosteer and active safety features). For drivers who were not using Autopilot technology (no Autosteer and active safety features), we recorded one crash for every 1.2 million miles driven. By comp…