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You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

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Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#181

Post by carom »

patall wrote: post #170

One interesting approach I heard about in this domain is the Trolldrossel (German for troll throttle) by Linus Neumann from CCC. He implemented a captcha test for a comment server that would fail with a certain percentage when encountering certain key-words in the comment, even when the captcha was solved correctly. While I have no notes about the effects and the corresponding talk seems to have vanished from the int…

I don't speak this language but I assume this is it.

https://linus-neumann.de/2013/05/die-trolldrossel-erkenntnis...

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#182

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

pjc50 wrote: post #161
jfengel wrote: post #55

If you host blobs for free, somebody is going to use you as their host. Even if you just hosted audio, I'm sure somebody will quickly come along with a steganography tool to hide their content on your site (and use your bandwidth). Similarly, if you make compute power available, people will use you to mine cryptocurrency. Even if all you host is text, somebody will come along to be abusive. When you put a computer on…

> Even if you just hosted audio Absolute worst case! You're going to end up DMCA'd by the entire music industry. > It's no longer 1991, when you could assume that such people wouldn't find you. Even back in the nineties, there was abuse .. but the internet was so much smaller, and it was possible to manually ban them. Except on USENET. The labour of dealing with spam fell to a small number of people, one of whom wrot…

> Absolute worst case! You're going to end up DMCA'd by the entire music industry.

You'll even get DMCA'd for your own content!

In late 2018, musician TheFatRat had one of his YouTube videos taken down due to a DMCA report: https://twitter.com/thisisthefatrat/status/10729330469391933...

Herman Li, the lead guitarist for Dragonforce, had his Twitch account suspended due to supposed DMCA violations because he played his own music on stream: https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/10/twitch-dragonforce-herman-...

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#183

Post by shuntress »

It really frustrates me that this level of abuse is just accepted as a fact of nature.

It feels like watching masked bandits stick up a bank then walk away casually to the next bank down the street while the bank manager says "Drat! Too bad we didn't stop that one at the door. Oh well, at least they only got one register"

I know all the responses to this are going to be "mUh PoLicE sTaTe" but I really wish there was some system of accountability for breach of trust online.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#184

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

seph-reed wrote: post #121
michaelpb wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there's an entire category of "idea guys" who don't get this. They repeatedly try to crack the code on a truly moderation-free or purely crowd-moderated platform, and it never, ever, ever works. It almost always boils down to a poor understanding of how humans work (usually some sort of "homo economicus") or how computers work (usually some sort of "AI magic wand").

I still theorize crowd-moderated platforms are possible, as long as there's really good gate-keeping. My bet is some real-world tie, one which is time consuming and expensive to create. From there it should be possible to create moderation tools that keep the rest going. An example of a real world tie would be a trust network that requires status with in-person communities and local businesses. And not just "accept t…

Whatever happened to Something Awful? Are they still around?

They charged a one-time $10 fee to access their forums. If you got banned, you could pay $10 to get a new account. It made being a total dick expensive. I've heard it get called the Idiot Tax.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#185

Post by nothrowaways »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #141
nothrowaways wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would recommend you a different approach, such as using metadata like their location etc.

It was a coordinated attack from many different locations and IPs. The IP blocking was in place on application level and later into Cloudflare blacklist. Still they would flood in with different IPs and browsers.

Still i would consider working on such metadata. I have seen many interesting results based on this.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#186

Post by [deleted] »

quantumBerry wrote: post #172
jjulius wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The internet is not moderated in any useful sense for content. Drug markets like white house market, and before that silk road... You mean the Silk Road that the US government "moderated" out of existence, along with other Tor marketplaces over the years? The same ones that suggest White House Market's existence is also likely to be limited?

I suppose in the sense that Gabby Pettito was moderated off the internet, Ross Ulbricht was moderated off of the internet and into a cage permanently for the heinous crime of facilitating voluntarily peaceful trade. Tor marketplaces were definitely not gone for years, the same content just moved under new banners. You can literally find the same content and more on WHM today as you did under Ulbricht's banner before…

[deleted]

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#187

Post by BrianOnHN »

So then the moderation market must be a big one.

With AI companies leading the pack.

Instead of a now [sufficiently abused] abuse reporting system.

What's going on? Tptb should fund these moderation companies asap, it could be a more centralized and hidden censorship tool. A SaaS that all companies at sufficient scale require for [lawful] moderation.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#188

Post by jjulius »

quantumBerry wrote: post #172
jjulius wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The internet is not moderated in any useful sense for content. Drug markets like white house market, and before that silk road... You mean the Silk Road that the US government "moderated" out of existence, along with other Tor marketplaces over the years? The same ones that suggest White House Market's existence is also likely to be limited?

I suppose in the sense that Gabby Pettito was moderated off the internet, Ross Ulbricht was moderated off of the internet and into a cage permanently for the heinous crime of facilitating voluntarily peaceful trade. Tor marketplaces were definitely not gone for years, the same content just moved under new banners. You can literally find the same content and more on WHM today as you did under Ulbricht's banner before…

>I suppose in the sense that Gabby Pettito was moderated off the internet, Ross Ulbricht was moderated off of the internet and into a cage permanently for the heinous crime of facilitating voluntarily peaceful trade.

Oh hello, strawman.

>Tor marketplaces were definitely not gone for years, the same content just moved under new banners. You can literally find the same content and more on WHM today as you did under Ulbricht's banner before he was kidnapped by government thugs.

And the only reason that happens is by virtue of Tor making it difficult to track the source of those sites and their operators. That doesn't mean that "moderators" (governments, etc.) aren't putting forth their best efforts to track them down and shut them down. It is nearly inevitable that WHM will see a similar fate to Silk Road, AlphaBay, DarkMarket, etc.. They're being shut down as quickly as they can be.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#189

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

rtkwe wrote: post #71

It's really funny every time a "we don't censor" platform pops up catering too the American right they speed run going from moderation == censorship to we're moderating our platform in record time. Turns out moderation is really important to make a platform for a community.

If you create a platform with absolutely zero censorship, you become a repository for child porn. I participated in Freenet many years ago because I liked its ideas (And thought it would have been a nice way to pirate games without my ISP being able to know), but it got a reputation for being used for CP, and I promptly deleted it, because I want no part in that.

If you merely censor illegal content, you will become a home for disinformation and ultra right-wing conspiracies. See Parler.

In either case, and especially the first, you're likely to get kicked off your hosting platform and get a lot of attention from the government.

I don't think it's possible create a "we don't censor" platform without hosting it in some foreign country that doesn't care about US laws and also hiding that you're the one that runs it.

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