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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#181

Post by jakub_g »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #168
Raed667 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laptop overheating if being put in the backpack I killed a macbook air exactly like this. It just decided not to shutdown like usual. Usually I'd put it on sleep mode, or just close the lid and it is fine, but it only took one time for it not to work properly to find the insides of my backpack like a sauna.

Is there even a way to make sure a MacBook is actually turt really off?

sudo pmset -a hibernatemode 25

The dumb thing is you can't choose to do sleep vs hibernate; you have a system global setting which decides what "sleep" means. (AFAIU You need to have two shell scripts sleep.sh and hibernate.sh to change the hibernate mode if you want to be in control on what's gonna happen)

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#182

Post by mikro2nd »

lmilcin wrote: post #67
JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

I just can't understand how people put up with not being able to control what they primary machines are doing. For that reason my primary work machine can currently only be Linux. I have Windows, but this one is only for stuff that is incompatible with Linux. I actually have Linux PC and a separate Linux laptop (Thinkpad T440s). That laptop runs super cool once I debugged all the sources of power usage. Which is quit…

neigh: what horsies say

nigh: near, nearly

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#183

Post by znpy »

lmilcin wrote: post #157
znpy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually have Linux PC and a separate Linux laptop (Thinkpad T440s). > That laptop runs super cool once I debugged all the sources of power usage. I have a T440 which runs quite hot, where did you look for sources of power usage (beyond powertop) ?

There is a difference between T440 and T440s. T440s is already power optimized and runs integrated GPU vs T440 which is more normal laptop with discrete graphics. I used mostly powertop but this is less reliable source of information when you are running discrete graphics card.

My T440 does not have a discrete GPU.

It's basically a T440s without the touchpad. But it's got an i7, of that matters.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#184

Post by pbhjpbhj »

nottorp wrote: post #144
qwerty456127 wrote: post #12

> With regards to transporting your laptop, you must first turn the laptop OFF This has been a problem for already quite long. I remember my very old laptop overheating if being put in the backpack in Standby mode. Nowadays I in fact don't just turn laptops Off the default way. I go and disable the "fast start up" (Control Panel - Power Options - Choose what the power buttons do) to make sure the computer gets turnt…

> Besides starting up fast, another important value standby modes add is freeing you from having to open, position and initialize (open the documents/locations in them) all your apps manually every time. Wait, Windows still doesn't do that?

Nope. I came back to MS Windows for work a couple of years ago -- it's ironically terrible at managing windows.

It does have virtual desktops now at least.

There are third-party solutions.

MS need better window management.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#185

Post by Dhrhdhxbxbx »

widerporst wrote: post #172
qwerty456127 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem is that hibernation is slooow It isn't. It can add just some seconds (probably less than 5 on fast SSDs, even less if you don't have too much RAM). If people can't wait this little they need to have their lives / jobs / mental health fixed rather than add more orders of complexity (with according increase in problems) into the computers.

Depends on your definition of slow. On my work laptop (modern HP Elitebook), sleep doesn't work at all (laptop just turns on again after going to sleep), so I'm using hibernate exclusively. Waking up from hibernate takes longer than one minute. On the other hand, my private laptop (Huawei Matebook) wakes up from sleep in less than 10 seconds.

Seems like something is wrong. Are extra BIOS checks enabled? My Linux Redmibook with 16 GB of RAM and a cheap SSD takes 5-6 seconds to restore from hibernate.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#186

Post by sprayk »

kawsper wrote: post #167
zokier wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hibernation in Windows hasn't gone anywhere. I have a Dell laptop in front of me and it has hibernate in the start menu as normal. Problem is that hibernation is slooow so people don't like to use it

Fedora doesn't even create swap partitions anymore, so you have to enable that first to enable hibernation, enabling it requires you to create a swap-partition, change things in systemd and meddle with the grub-configuration: https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/fedora-hibernate.html

if you use secure boot, you cannot use hibernation under fedora (or any Linux, afaik) since there is no way to "seal" the hibernation image from modification by an attacker who could mount the swap on another OS where they have root. this is regardless of disk encryption.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#187

Post by sprayk »

y4mi wrote: post #119
zokier wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hibernation in Windows hasn't gone anywhere. I have a Dell laptop in front of me and it has hibernate in the start menu as normal. Problem is that hibernation is slooow so people don't like to use it

Why though? My drive can write with up to 3gb/s. I only have 32 gb of ram, so the process should take at most 10s. Generally less, as a lot is usually free.

you have 32 GiB of RAM, gibibytes, meaning 32 * 1024^3. does your drive write at 3 GB/s (gigabytes) or Gb/s (gigabits)? if little b bits, it'll be more like 80 sec

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#188

Post by kblev »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #129
JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

There is something OS specific: Windows has some setting to wake up when a WLAN connection is available. I had this issue once, that I hibernated it, put it in a bag and went home. On the way it must have picked up some WLAN somewhere and have turned on, while in my bag, while the lid is closed, while hibernated ... And I believe this was the standard setting. I mean, who in their right mind wants their laptop to tur…

Windows keeps waking up for random things, the problem is getting worse with every Windows release and Microsoft keeps removing more and more controls.

Just a few days ago I spent hours trying to fix the constant wake-ups. This time it was a waketimer set by the StartMenuExperienceHost.exe process! [1]

Microsoft already removed the Power Management tabs in Device Manager for most devices (mouse, etc.). They also removed the "Allow wake timers" option in Power Options (Surface pro has very limited power options exposed). They also removed the CSEnabled registry key.

[1] https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/how-to...

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#189

Post by zweifuss »

widerporst wrote: post #172
qwerty456127 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem is that hibernation is slooow It isn't. It can add just some seconds (probably less than 5 on fast SSDs, even less if you don't have too much RAM). If people can't wait this little they need to have their lives / jobs / mental health fixed rather than add more orders of complexity (with according increase in problems) into the computers.

Depends on your definition of slow. On my work laptop (modern HP Elitebook), sleep doesn't work at all (laptop just turns on again after going to sleep), so I'm using hibernate exclusively. Waking up from hibernate takes longer than one minute. On the other hand, my private laptop (Huawei Matebook) wakes up from sleep in less than 10 seconds.

On my MateBook 13 (2020) the Fn and Shift Lock lights are turned on, while the laptop is still powerd on, but not under OS control anymore: Sleep takes 6 seconds down and 2 seconds up. Hibernation is 9 seconds down and 20isch seconds up. Shutdown is 20isch down and Boot is 22isch to desktop (fastboot=off).

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#190

Post by slezyr »

vesinisa wrote: post #78
slezyr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be slower than cold boot on machines with 32GB of RAM

I have a 64 GB Mac with SSD and managed to trick it to use true hibernation (Apple does not want you to know it but you can still achieve true hibernation by enabling disk encryption (FileVault™) and forcing key material erasure from MEM on standby with `sudo pmset -a DestroyFVKeyOnStandBy 1`). I just timed it and bootup from hibernation to UI took 25 seconds, out of which maybe 5 seconds were taken by inputtting the…

Yes, but this is an issue with Apple products. My old PC with not-so-fast SSD can boot (Linux and Windows) much faster than 16" MacBook Pro.
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