Revolt of the Delivery Workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#181

Post by CodesInChaos » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #159

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

Spoiler alert: the murder rate in Russia is 40% higher than in the US, and that's despite the very different gun laws [1][2]. Nothing ruins a good story like facts. That's also why you should always raise before you launch or enter a new market, etc. People are suckers for a story, and our brains are pre-wired to explain phenomena rather than to question them. Once you master that psychology (and manipulation) of peo…

It'd rather compare the US with Western Europe. Homicide in the US is 5x that of Germany, and 10x that of Norway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#182

Post by CalRobert » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:20 PM UTC

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

It's an issue in Dublin, Ireland too. Deliveroo riders are attacked and police seem to disregard it as an issue. Then when the riders started making maps describing which areas were dangerous the pearl-clutchers described it as "classist".

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/deliveroo...

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#183

Post by colpabar » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #144

willcipriano wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police officers don't investigate wage theft, labor boards do. Not going after shoplifters, bike thieves and porch pirates doesn't free up any resources in order to go after wage theft, it just makes the area less safe and more expensive.

Chesa Boudin is the District Attorney, not a police officer. Wage theft is under his jurisdiction.

Has he done anything about it?

I don't understand why you're bringing this up when the TFA is about armed robbery. I do understand why someone would bring up SF in the first place, because SF decided to stop prosecuting "petty larceny". TFA is about what you'd also call "petty larceny", and the city seems to not care about it.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#184

Post by tazjin » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #159

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

Spoiler alert: the murder rate in Russia is 40% higher than in the US, and that's despite the very different gun laws [1][2]. Nothing ruins a good story like facts. That's also why you should always raise before you launch or enter a new market, etc. People are suckers for a story, and our brains are pre-wired to explain phenomena rather than to question them. Once you master that psychology (and manipulation) of peo…

From your link:

> Either way, it represents a significant decrease over the previous 15 years (in 2001, the homicide rate was 30.5). In 2018, according to Rosstat, there were 7,067 murders, and the homicide rate in Russia fell below the United States for the first time in recent history, falling to 4.9 per 100,000 compared to the US rate of 5.0 per 100,000 in 2018.

A common thing that happens in these comparisons is that people look at the Rosstat statistic that includes attempted murder.

Also, I'm specifically making my point about the major cities. Moscow sees a huge amount of investment of course, and I would expect the same from US cities like NYC or SF.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#185

Post by chowchowchow » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #159

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

Spoiler alert: the murder rate in Russia is 40% higher than in the US, and that's despite the very different gun laws [1][2]. Nothing ruins a good story like facts. That's also why you should always raise before you launch or enter a new market, etc. People are suckers for a story, and our brains are pre-wired to explain phenomena rather than to question them. Once you master that psychology (and manipulation) of peo…

Ah yes, Russia. Long held as the standard to which the US should aspire to in many ways, including its murder rate.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#186

Post by colpabar » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

skocznymroczny wrote: post #102

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

Could it be the attacks are coming from minority groups and it's uncomfortable to do something about it in the current political climate? Even in places like UK and Germany there were cases of police afraid to intervene to avoid being accused of racism whenever minorities were involved.

Seems like BART's decision to stop releasing footage of crimes committed on SF public transit agrees with you.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/07/09/bart-withholdin...

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#187

Post by aerosmile » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

CodesInChaos wrote: post #181

aerosmile wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoiler alert: the murder rate in Russia is 40% higher than in the US, and that's despite the very different gun laws [1][2]. Nothing ruins a good story like facts. That's also why you should always raise before you launch or enter a new market, etc. People are suckers for a story, and our brains are pre-wired to explain phenomena rather than to question them. Once you master that psychology (and manipulation) of peo…

It'd rather compare the US with Western Europe. Homicide in the US is 5x that of Germany, and 10x that of Norway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

My point was not to defend the crime rate in the US, but to address a question that a person from Russia asked - why does it sound like living in NYC is like watching some Western movie, whereas the same cannot be said about Moscow?

It sounded strange, because all it takes is a few YouTube searches to witness the level of violence that exists in Russia that far exceeds anything you'll see in the US. Russia really is something else in that regard, and if a Russian felt safer at home than in the US, it's simply a product of exaggerated reporting.

If someone living in Munich said that NYC is more dangerous than what they are used to, I wouldn't disagree with them.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#188

Post by MisterTea » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

This is nothing new, the South Bronx has always been a notorious crime ridden mess.

I used to hang around some trucking forums and found that in the 70's-80's into the 90's Hunts Point was legendary among truckers as a war zone. From the stories and anecdotes the route between the ports and the expressway was a gauntlet of armed highwaymen. It was so bad truckers would not stop for red lights or stop signs for fear of being hijacked in broad daylight. It was customary to lean on the horn and try to roll through. A few even admitted to illegally carrying a pistol for protection.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#189

Post by LeifCarrotson » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #175

josephorjoe wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robbery of delivery workers has long been a problem in the city complicated by the fact that many of them don't trust/don't feel safe going to the police. My first time on jury duty in nyc the case was armed robbery of a delivery worker to steal his cell phone - this was pre smart phone era, so let's say the phone's value was Was a very depressing case tbh. One person at risk of death and another at risk of a long pr…

Indeed. Maybe the part that's most depressing to me is that the long prison sentence clearly isn't enough of a disincentive against robbing another working-class person. How fucked up and bleak would your world have to be in order to do such a thing?

Harsher sentences can actually be detrimental. It's not so bleak that someone would be willing to spend years in prison for a $200 phone.

Similarly, I didn't actually believe it was worth more than $125 to be a few seconds earlier to work this morning, which would be a rational, economic justification for a $125 traffic ticket. Instead, I've driven some 250,000 miles in the past 10 years (thankfully done with the long highway commute that caused most of them), I'd say about half of them were at 5mph over, and I've never received a ticket. I traded a 1:100,000 chance of a ticket against keeping up with the rest of traffic who were also uniformly breaking the law; I'm pretty adept with numbers but I find it difficult to comprehend that scale.

They're trading a tiny, tiny chance of prison time against a $200 phone. The actual percentage of enforcement is irrelevant compared to the justified, reinforced belief that they won't be caught or punished. OP mentioned that as a juror they were depressed at the apparent mandate to sentence someone to years in prison for the petty theft, instead, consistent enforcement of an appropriate penalty would be far better at changing behaviors.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#190

Post by mjburgess » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

stagger87 wrote: post #165

mjburgess wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think so. Americans often project this "no-go areas" type thinking onto europe. I'm not aware of any "no-go" areas anywhere in the country. I think a ban on guns, and eg., an extreme historical scarcity of them in the UK means we aren't in the same position at all. Yes there may be gangs. Yes there may be murders. But I think people delivering food on bikes arent in danger basically anywhere.

Bike robbery and theft is an issue in Europe, especially e-bikes. > Americans often project this "no-go areas" type thinking onto europe. I'm not aware of any "no-go" areas anywhere in the country. This just comes off as more flame bait. What kind of discussion do you expect to have with this sort of comment?

Well, at least, someone offering a counter-example.