Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#181

Post by tonyarkles » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #159

ekianjo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet to get my point across. It seems like a poor choice of position for that employee.

Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet Calm down. Breathe. You're buying something at a store, not performing surgery. Five minutes of your time is not necessarily more important than depriving someone of their livelihood. If you were that important, you'd be driving an ambulance.

> If you were that important, you'd be driving an ambulance.

I'm stealing that line... thanks for the chuckle and snort on a Saturday morning.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#182

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #173

zozbot234 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussing workplace conditions is explicitly an exercise of legally-protected rights.

Yes, but that is not what we're talking about: " she said Apple had begun trying to reassign her after she complained that the company’s work on the minerals was not, in some cases, leading to meaningful change in some war-torn countries "

Dealing with the minerals supply chain situation was part of her job description. She can't discuss how she's practically being set up for failure? How's that not part of her work conditions?

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#183

Post by saagarjha » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #54

exBarrelSpoiler wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to Slack, intra-company communications at Apple have been historically limited. Just being able to ping anyone at an instant is a cultural sea change.

Oh, did Apple not have any global IM at all before Covid? This is startling to me. I haven't had a job without Slack or an essentially-equivalent predecessor (Hipchat) in over eight years.

Not really. If you wanted to contact many people usually you'd need to send an email to a list.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#184

Post by yunohn » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #168

yunohn wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“She said Apple had begun trying to reassign her after she complained” This is called retaliation, and is illegal. It’s not happenstance that she got re-orged after complaining about underlying issues.

It's only retaliation if the employee is engaging in an exercise of their legally-protected rights. If someone is fired after complaining about sexual harassment in the workplace, that's retaliation because you have a legal right to a workplace free of such harassment. If someone is reassigned after complaining about their employer's ESG policies, you're going to have to explain to me what the nature of the legal pro…

It is quite telling that you’re sticking to the strictest possible definition of “retaliation”.

A reasonable person would consider reassignment due to complaining about the ineffectivity of their role and green washing by their employer (often covered by whistle-blowing protections), as retaliation.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#185

Post by prpl » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #8

> Richard Dahan, who is deaf, said he had struggled at his former job at an Apple Store in Maryland for six years because his manager refused to provide a sign-language interpreter for him to communicate with customers, which federal law requires under some circumstances. This just doesn't seem like a reasonable accommodation for a retail job. Your whole job is to communicate with the customers. If you need to hire a…

There’s a lot of weird comments in here by people who don’t know anything about deaf people.

1. Text is a common medium for communicating with the deaf. Younger deaf people in particular will be fine with this

2. VRS is also an option, but it would be awkward in that scenario. VRS is subsidized by the government. VRS predates Facetime but both have been complimentary for deaf people

3. It wouldn’t be a huge leap to expect Apple to run their own VRS-like service optimized for deaf retail employees and situations, considering they make Facetime, and counting all the other anecdotes of interaction with deaf people here. The same should be true for any huge retail operation - Macy’s, Home Depot, Costco, etc… If you go to a hospital they already have something like this.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#186

Post by saagarjha » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #176

Bahamut wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note, before Slack a lot of the company was just using iMessage - nobody wants that, 30+ people group chats with messages at all hours of the day was the worst digital communication experience I've ever seen at a company.

Nothing wrong with eating your own dogfood. If iMessage group chats are a bad experience, fix them in the software itself.

iMessage is not a scalable work communication tool.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#187

Post by pc86 » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #46

imgabe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also been a customer at establishments with deaf employees and none of them ever had a sign language interpreter. Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation. Customers who don’t like it can work with another employee or go elsewhere. But hiring a second entire employee who basically shadows you and does your job for you seems like a bit much.

> Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet to get my point across. It seems like a poor choice of position for that employee.

Then work with a different employee. The additional time in minimal. This is a pretty disgusting attitude, honestly. "I'm not willing to be in this store for 18 minutes instead of 16 minutes, how dare this handicapped person attempt to do their job and assist me!"

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#188

Post by freewilly1040 » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

madrox wrote: post #10

I don't believe Apple or secrecy is the story here. I think the real story is how the pandemic + slack has changed corporate politics. It used to be that most corporate concerns were raised through HR or the management chain, and power ultimately rested with the executive. Now, Slack means it's much easier to put anyone on blast, and it's much harder to control the narrative. Combined with the pandemic, where all soc…

At my company of thousands there used to me one right wing troll and one left wing troll. The right wing troll would piss everyone off in the #diversity channel, the left wing troll would insult the company and leadership along social justice lines.

The amount of oxygen these two took up on Slack was incredible. There would be threads hundreds of messages long arguing about politics, and every all hands had some sour, insulting question.

Both were eventually let go. But Slack really scales up rabble rousing, for good and ill.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#189

Post by amirhirsch » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

autoliteInline wrote: post #147

imgabe wrote: post #8

> Richard Dahan, who is deaf, said he had struggled at his former job at an Apple Store in Maryland for six years because his manager refused to provide a sign-language interpreter for him to communicate with customers, which federal law requires under some circumstances. This just doesn't seem like a reasonable accommodation for a retail job. Your whole job is to communicate with the customers. If you need to hire a…

>This is like if you're in a wheelchair and you get a job to hang drywall. You could view it as a full employment plan. The next logical step is to have a deaf man who only signs in Irish Sign Language. The first interpreter converts that to ASL, the second into spoken English.

I suppose they would have to discriminate against deaf people in their search to hire an interpreter for their deaf employees or it’s interpreters all the way down.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#190

Post by mynegation » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #134

sidkshatriya wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be difficult to communicate this way but I think there is a social benefit to making the extra effort for people with disabilities. Often you don’t choose to be disabled. What if you were unlucky to be disabled? Would you like your opportunities to be thoroughly reduced in life? I try to make an effort because I could have been in that employee’s shoes. I am lucky… this is the least I can do.

When I go to a store, I'm not doing it out of charity for the employees. I'm doing it because I want to buy something, in the most efficient and/or pleasant way possible. I'd much rather fund social programs which just outright support people with disabilities (and I'd like such programs to be more robust and empathetic than they are today). Frankly, if you're not going to be able to do your job well in the first pla…

Nothing wrong with this point of view, there are definitely times when I want to be out of the store as fast as humanly possible.

Couple of times I have been served by a deaf employee in my local Apple store, we typed sentences on the iPad. It was slower a bit but otherwise perfectly fine.

If this person wanted just money from social programs they would do that. But you could tell it was important for them to work, to communicate with other people, and have a sense of purpose. And it was my pleasure and privilege to participate in this, for these brief several minutes.

It might not have been the fastest way but it was definitely pleasant (2nd part of your criteria), for both of us.