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On YouTube’s recommendation system

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Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#181

Post by dsclough »

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

I'd recommend anyone looking to take better control of their habits in this regard to install the DF Youtube extension. Turn it off when you want to tumble down rabbitholes and keep it on at all other times. Really makes a difference in how youtube usage works over time.

On a related note it would be interesting if someone has made some "rabbithole resolving" software - I've noticed that these things terminate in extremely similar ways for most people, and have had a number of conversations laughing with others about how we've gone down the exact same content route. Write some code to find the bottom for us and save all the headache (fun)!

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#182

Post by jedimastert »

CoryAlexMartin wrote: post #73

> With all that, why don’t we simply remove borderline content? Misinformation tends to shift and evolve rapidly, and unlike areas like terrorism or child safety, often lacks a clear consensus. Also, misinformation can vary depending on personal perspective and background. This is a weird way to say "ideas that we suppress for being misinformation are sometimes actually true."

I mean, context really is important. "Ivermectin won a Nobel prize" is an objectively true fact, but depending on who you are that either means basically nothing or go eat horse de-wormer

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#183

Post by brendoelfrendo »

dgritsko wrote: post #160
stevofolife wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You started playing WoW Classic and it was able to recommend WoW-related videos. It did its job. What else do you expect from a recommendation system? Predict what you're interested next or what you're going to do tomorrow? That's not recommendation, that's mass surveillance and psychological manipulation. But on a useful note, maybe YouTube needs to provide a function to see a list of random videos that are unexplor…

> What else do you expect from a recommendation system? Predict what you're interested next or what you're going to do tomorrow? Actually, I think they kind of are trying to do this (in a sense), if you read the article: > Our system then compares your viewing habits with those that are similar to you and uses that information to suggest other content you may want to watch. So if you like tennis videos and our system…

This is probably how both I and many of my friends who share interests managed to fall down the same city planning YouTube rabbit hole this summer.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#184

Post by JohnFen »

derefr wrote: post #75
lordentropy wrote: post #5

For me, it seems like youtube's recommendation system mostly gets stuck in the local optimum. Once you watch a video from a particular channel, it'll keep on recommending the videos from the same channel for months. Soon, the recommendation just consists of stuff from the channels that have you already viewed. You rarely see new types of recommendations.

Bizarrely, I find the opposite. I follow a lot of channels. (More than a thousand, I think.) Among those, some of them I watch every time I see them, while others I hardly ever engage with. But it's always the followed channels I hardly ever engage with that show up in my Recommended feed; while the followed channels that I consistently engage with are nowhere to be seen. (Not just in Recommended; they fail to show u…

> Instead, I have to explicitly go into "Subscriptions"

This is how I've always used YouTube, and it wasn't that long ago that I learned most people don't do it that way. My usual pattern is to go to the subscriptions tab and scroll down to where the last video I viewed was, then start watching from there up towards the top of the list.

It would be really handy if the YouTube app had some way of making that easier.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#185

Post by lucb1e »

lordentropy wrote: post #5

For me, it seems like youtube's recommendation system mostly gets stuck in the local optimum. Once you watch a video from a particular channel, it'll keep on recommending the videos from the same channel for months. Soon, the recommendation just consists of stuff from the channels that have you already viewed. You rarely see new types of recommendations.

The recommendations are better if you browse logged-out. More diverse, recommending things to satisfy curiosity about related topics rather than the same monotonous stuff you already know about.

We hypothesized this might be because you're less likely to be hooked yet, so it wants you to really get the good stuff and hope that you then want to subscribe to or comment on something? And once you're signed up, you might stay on the site longer if you need to keep looking for stuff you like and generate more ad impressions.

I should really do a comparison logged-out vs. logged-in because I could swear those ads are different amounts and durations. Also it's percentage-wise about as much as the free legacy TV channels, except of course YT doesn't need to pay the production company -- ShadyVPN already takes care of that.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#186

Post by robbomacrae »

rubicon33 wrote: post #155

Be careful with YouTube. For years people have talked about social media's effect on mental health, but personally, I've found the biggest hit to be YouTube. Their recommendation system is really the heart of the beast. It's essentially a dopamine reward system, not too dissimilar from a slot machine at a casino. Pull the lever (refresh the page) and get random results! It sucks you in to a cycle of refreshing, findi…

I completely agree. I replied to another comment with more anecdotal evidence but people are absolutely missing how dangerous YouTube is because of all the focus on FB. Content is getting worse as creators focus on spammy click bait and DO NOT let your kids anywhere near youtube... even the YouTube for kids. They will end up getting sucked into that dopamine reward system you mention, consuming the most banal content.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#187

Post by dkdk8283 »

dvlsg wrote: post #57
tsumnia wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most systems have this issue. I've described it as a 'fear of recommending something you hate'. They know you watched X video from Y channel, so there is a good chance you'd like Z video that has a similar fanbase or content. However, it becomes this echo chamber of only recommending the same content over and over again because they don't want to suggest something you don't like. That's because to their metrics, you…

YouTube still recommends stuff I hate all the time, despite me explicitly trying to tell the system I'm not interested. To pick an example, my YouTube recommended section is full of videos of people reacting to the things I actually like to watch. I don't want to watch people reacting to the things I like. I just want to watch the things I like. I try to tell YouTube that by saying "Not Interested" to all of the reac…

I loathe videos on trending with the exception of some science content. I say “not interested” all the time but the third recommendation is always some bs I have zero interest in.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#188

Post by JohnFen »

rubicon33 wrote: post #155

Be careful with YouTube. For years people have talked about social media's effect on mental health, but personally, I've found the biggest hit to be YouTube. Their recommendation system is really the heart of the beast. It's essentially a dopamine reward system, not too dissimilar from a slot machine at a casino. Pull the lever (refresh the page) and get random results! It sucks you in to a cycle of refreshing, findi…

> It sucks you in to a cycle of refreshing, finding videos you're interested in, clicking, rinse, repeat.

Well then I guess that I'm lucky that the recommendation system almost entirely fails to find videos that I'm interested in!

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#189

Post by AdrianB1 »

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

I got in the same situation with videos on otters (popular in South Korea, it seems) by watching accidentally one in the feed, but the music recommendations are either missing or missing my preferences, so the system does not really work for me.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#190

Post by jumpkick »

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

“Gear” is slang for steroids so I assume this is the joke, right? :p
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