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Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

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Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#181

Post by simion314 »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #38
jegea wrote: post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

It is not about efficiency , it is about legacy. You can count number of Perl scripts out there and conclude that Perl is still the most popular scripting/devops tool in the world

Not always true. Is also about the best tool for the job.

Ex. I had to implement a task that would need to check if an image is similar to other image (not related to porn/csam). I implemented it with just a few line of PHP and no 100+ package dependencies. How? I run a linux CLI app from inside PHP, super easy.

but, but , you can do it with node too, - yes, but guess int he past in a node project, soem dev instead of calling ffmpeg directly he npm installed some shit package that called ffmpeg. The package was basic and it did not include or options needed , some other dev would have installed other package to get a new ffmpeg feature, /

I removed all those packages and done it directly.

My point is that we need to use the best tool for the job, if there is a CLI app or Java program/library that solves your problem a developer should present teh client the truth "I can solve your problem using this in 1 day or I can rewrite it in CoolLang and CollFramework and CoolPacakgeManager and CoolTranspilter with 100+ shit dependencies in 1 month. I am afraid many developers are choosing the last option to pad their CV and pump their ego.

I would say is also the ecosystem, PHP has a bit ecosystem and it can always use all the Linux applications (once in a project I integrated PHP with node program puppeteer) so there is no limitation, I miss more features in JS then I miss them in PHP.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#182

Post by jonwinstanley »

gitgud wrote: post #166
cardanome wrote: post #45

PHP is a great fit for most web projects. It is battle tested with great backwards compatibility, fast, offers the best deployment story and combines the advantages of dynamic and static typing with it's gradual typing system (Think Typescript without the complexity of Typescript.) The next version is even going to improve on its weakest point, concurrency, with Fibers: https://php.watch/versions/8.1/fibers Sure we a…

> " I really don't get why PHP is not more liked in hacker circles " To me PHP is an ugly language, with heaps of quirks and weird api's. The way it mixes markup and logic is gross. That being said, I do like some parts of it. The way you compose pages by just writing "include" is nice. The way the server spins up processes for every request like a micro-service is nice. PHP does have an elegant simplicity that many…

Mixing markup and logic is strictly not done in the more modern frameworks like Laravel and Symfony, they use MVC similar to Rails.

Wordpress does mix the two, but Wordpress is definitely not a good example for modern PHP development!

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#183

Post by jonwinstanley »

gbourne wrote: post #158

This is interesting from a 30,000 foot view, but without knowing the details on the companies and how they are using the language it is hard to draw conclusions. For example: - As many pointed out, are the majority of PHP just default Wordpress sites? I would rather know who built in a given language rather than installed a site that happens to use a language. - I use to be in the banking world and it as all Java (or…

The people who start their company with wordpress aren't programmers. They are entrepreneurs looking to build a website for close to $0.

It's only later when they grow they hire a developer and by that point they may be committed to PHP due to the sunk costs.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#184

Post by jegea »

dncornholio wrote: post #127
brightball wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell people all the time about how good the Ruby job market is. Lots of opportunities and not a ton of people to fill them for some reason. People from other languages don’t seem to want to believe it.

It looks like US adopted Ruby but in EU it never really catched the attention. EU is is still full of PHP. I don't think a lot of new companies are based on Ruby anymore seeing on how there's hardly any talk of Ruby anymore. But that's just an observation.

The Ruby dev market in Europe is hotter than ever.

Of course, that's in relative terms. It's nowhere near the size of the Java, JS or even Python market size, but demand is strongest than ever and salaries show that, too

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#186

Post by jegea »

MattGaiser wrote: post #132
jegea wrote: post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

> despite not being "cool" anymore. Take a look at the YC job board. A surprising number of the companies use RoR.

Indeed! That's one of the things I like to review in those "Who's hiring" posts. That's why I'm happy to continue being a Ruby developer!

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#187

Post by johntdaly »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #167
johntdaly wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it is not the same anymore. It doesn’t invalidate my experience from back then and the reason I left the community. And to get a response along the line that, I don’t get to have an opinion because the stuff I worked on was “OLD SHIT” is insulting.

The reason for that though is that it has changed so much that your old experience is hardly relevant because it is so different now. The Old PHP world and the New PHP world are hardly recognizable as the same thing.

1) Would you argue that point with WordPress too? It still looks a lot like the old PHP and it is a big part of those nearly 80% market share.

2) Part of my point was PHP, regardless of what you may think of it, is not bad enough that any of that code needs a rewrite. Still PHP people concentrate on me not liking PHP and argue with me about that and nothing else. Why is the reflex in the PHP community to do this so strong?

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#188

Post by cardanome »

gitgud wrote: post #166
cardanome wrote: post #45

PHP is a great fit for most web projects. It is battle tested with great backwards compatibility, fast, offers the best deployment story and combines the advantages of dynamic and static typing with it's gradual typing system (Think Typescript without the complexity of Typescript.) The next version is even going to improve on its weakest point, concurrency, with Fibers: https://php.watch/versions/8.1/fibers Sure we a…

> " I really don't get why PHP is not more liked in hacker circles " To me PHP is an ugly language, with heaps of quirks and weird api's. The way it mixes markup and logic is gross. That being said, I do like some parts of it. The way you compose pages by just writing "include" is nice. The way the server spins up processes for every request like a micro-service is nice. PHP does have an elegant simplicity that many…

> The way it mixes markup and logic is gross.

We don't do that any more. You separate logic and view like in any other language.

In fact some people don't even use PHP for templating anymore but a domain specific language. (Though sometimes having a fully features programming language for templating can be nice so jury is still out.)

Honestly I am more grossed out with the stuff that some modern frontend frameworks are doing these days, where there is not separation of styling, markup and logic anymore with that thing that is like html but not totally html. I see the advantages but not sure how this will turn out in the long run.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#190

Post by winternett »

Grimm1 wrote: post #171
winternett wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a controversial opinion of mine, but many other languages have come and gone since PHP, yet it still dominates. With all the new alternatives nothing has taken over and it shows that stability and mature works better than change when there is not a critical need for it. Modern languages have also time and time again forsaken the ideal of making development LESS COMPLICATED than prior languages, and this is why t…

Code compilation has saved me so many headaches that would have otherwise been discovered in production, so I can't say I agree with you there. That said the languages I compile also take 15 seconds so I don't experience that 40 minute compilation times some people have and that would probably sour my experience a bit. The language I'm talking about is Elixir fwiw.

Wait a minute... You guys don't test in PROD?

LOL... j/k. :P

Architecture design and Agile now compensate for the traditional compile/test procedures... DEV > STAGE > PROD

When it's practiced with discipline it works well, catching most issues prior to the system going down anyway on deployments to PROD :)

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