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Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

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Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#181

Post by rnotaro »

Kiro wrote: post #144
humanlion87 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is insane. How are they even getting away with such a scheme? Did they start out at a 1:1 ratio and change it once network effects and lock-in happened.

In literally all other games I know of the ratio is 1:0 since you can't cash out their in-game currency at all. Do you have any of example of a game or a platform where you can sell the in-game currency for the purchase price?

Secondlife have a fair spread and is player to player.

They take 3.5% of fee when you are transfering it to USD. (Sellers)

Buyers are charged charged a 7.50% transaction fee with a minimum of US$ 1.49 and a maximum of US$ 9.99 per transaction

------ The current spread on Lindex (SL Forex) is :

BUY: L$242 / US$1.00 (L$14,816 Remaining) SELL: L$249 / US$1.00 (L$29,411 remaining)

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#183

Post by _3wrh »

dreyfan wrote: post #7

This is no more exploitative than someone trying to make it big on Youtube, Twitch, or Spotify and gaining zero traction. If the content someone creates on these platforms doesn't capture an audience, the hosting platform doesn't generate any revenue and neither does the creator. It's completely free to produce the content (minus your time) and the platform hosts it for free, even though 99% of it never receives any…

> the hosting platform doesn't generate any revenue

That's false.

"YouTube will run ads on smaller creators' videos without paying them"

https://www.engadget.com/youtube-ads-on-small-creator-videos...

Requirement for YouTube partner is 1000 subscriptions.

In the case of Robox, they are still getting paid for all those small games that make less than $1000, and meanwhile the creators get scrip.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#184

Post by dtagames »

robocat wrote: post #174
Raymonf wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can spend it in-game at the full value. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but it's also important to note that not all Robux is equal. There's more information at https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005718246 under section 3.B.

3.B “Minimum of 100,000 earned Robux in your account. In order to protect against money laundering and comply with applicable law, we limit all Cash Outs to "earned" Robux. Robux are considered "earned" if you receive them by receiving payments from a bona fide third party transaction through the Services for (a) virtual items (such as clothing for an avatar) that you created or (b) virtual things in your game or for…

Ugh. It feels like Roblox is the MLM of gaming.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#186

Post by dtagames »

alex_munroe wrote: post #170
donmcronald wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s probably a long tail where a tiny fraction of devs make more than that. Free labor!

By the same logic, YCombinator is "exploiting our free labor" through Hacker News. People write thoughtful comments, get nothing in return, and YC benefits from free publicity. Same for facebook posts, instagram, reddit, and every business that benefits from community and network effects. Same for every video game that allows mods, custom levels, and so on. The only difference is that Minecraft users make no money at…

I beg to differ. HN is free because the contributors and audience provide a significant input funnel for founders, employees, and investors who directly participate in the YC economy. It's a recruitment and promotional tool for all three groups.

However, YC does not charge people to play HN in the way that Roblox charges for that game. No one is counting my minutes on HN and sending someone a payment, or a bill. There is no direct monetization of my UGC.

Mod.io is a gaming add-on (for mods) that also has no in-platform direct monetization of UGC assets. Of course, the games that use mod.io do it because having UGC at all brings the right kind of players and those players do pay.

So it is possible to make money, have UGC, and not be exploitative. I don't think Roblox can say that's where they are right now.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#187

Post by dtagames »

ATsch wrote: post #156
duxup wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is YouTube getting free labor when I upload a video? I feel like the exchange there is not about labor...

Yes it is. That is what they make their money off of, the difference between what they earn off of the labor of the video creators and the money they pay out. If nobody uploaded videos, youtube could not sell attention just like if no steelworkers arrived, the steel mill can not sell steel. That applies to all social media/user generated content platforms. Now, you might argue that this does not feel like labor becau…

Not sure why you were downvoted but you're right. YouTube, in a total inversion of the TV business model, doesn't pay creators for anything until after it's been monetized -- and then they take a cut first. The cut is so early in the process that millions of videos are monetized and the creators are not even aware, much less paid.

This is the reverse of the Hollywood TV model where you paid creators first and then tried to monetize the content you owned. It's certainly still labor to create it. The only things that have changed are the ownership, licensing, and payment stream.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#188

Post by dtagames »

duxup wrote: post #13

My son makes some games on Roblox and plays a lot. He has a great time, he's not chasing $, he just wants to have fun. It works great for that. As soon as you try to stand out and chase money, yeah it gets HARD. Just like streaming on YouTube... or just getting noticed online for your blog. But what's the alternative here? That's a question of scale. Just not let kids even have a chance to make money?

I think what the video presenter is suggesting is that:

1. Revenue could be shared more fairly. The money that Roblox is keeping from kids is going into corporate pockets. There's no way around that.

2. The advertising could be more honest. If it's only for devs to make money, then mention that part only under the dev pages where 1% of the people will find them. For everyone else, advertise playing and creating for fun.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#189

Post by thethirdone »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #124
sillysaurusx wrote: post #81

See Carmack's rebuttal: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1428483898896535562 > I have been impressed by the number of real world economic and business issues that Roblox is exposing my younger son to, both in the experiences and the larger ecosystem. There is a lot of thinking in terms of effort, reward, and risk. "You seem to be ignoring the thesis of the video. For the vast majority of their creators, their…

> Roblox provides opportunities previously unavailable; it is up to the individuals to decide if they are worthwhile to invest time in. Oh boy. I think we've all heard that many times before. Every exploitative business will use this line as its defense (see e.g. every controversy about employee/contractor status in the gig economy), so taken alone it isn't much of an argument. For example, individuals can be mislead…

I think it is important to note that its not the payment model itself that's the issue in those cases. It is instead the marketing that convinces people to engage with it in a way that is harmful / allows them to be exploited.

I would think contractor status can make sense for a small portion of people in the gig economy, but for a lot of people it would not.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#190

Post by dtagames »

rtkwe wrote: post #56
tyleo wrote: post #5

I read the article but have not watched the video so I may be missing some context. It really depends on how you define “exploiting”. It doesn’t seem like you _need_ to buy the ads. A kid could make a game on any platform and would encounter similar barriers. Would it be better if the kid played Call of Duty rather than creating something? Even if the chance to profit is low does the kid get something else out of Rob…

Roblox takes their 75% cut out of each sale then if you ever manage to accumulate the 100,000 Robux needed to cash out ($1000 worth for what Roblox sells it for) you only get $350. They're double dipping their cut. You should really watch the video it lays out the case very well. If it's meant to be educational it shouldn't be marketing itself as a way to make money or charging kids to promote their app. It would hav…

Microsoft MakeCode (here's MakeCode Arcade[0], just one aspect) is a terrific gaming platform which teaches standard Typescript (using a Scratch-type interface). It doesn't offer monetization of any kind so they can honestly advertise for the pure creative, maker, and educational markets. And they do!

[0] https://arcade.makecode.com/

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