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Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#181

Post by HideousKojima »

function_seven wrote: post #44
IlliOnato wrote: post #37

I read the whole article with sympathetic interest, until the conclusion: > One way to solve the problem of high power devices is simply not to use them -- this is the approach that's followed in sailboats, motorhomes and caravans > Obviously, this strategy implies a change in our way of life. It would mean that electricity is used only for lighting, electronics and refrigeration, while non-electric alternatives are…

I get unreasonably angry when Victorian cosplayers think they've found the solution to our wasteful modern life. Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock! Simple , instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market down the block before dinner each night. Was it cloudy yesterday? Simple! , take a whore-bath¹ at…

Pirate bath/shower is what I've heard them called: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pirate%20bat...

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#182

Post by bluGill »

pleb_nz wrote: post #97
tootie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frequently much more energy intensive too. Cars are a lot more efficient than horses and dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing.

I read somewhere modern people spend the same amount of time doing chores as someone before electricity. It wouldn't surprise me if it were that far off the truth. We own so much more and are told we need things when in reality maybe we don't?

There are two variables, time and cleaning standards. People clean to a higher standard with modern tools in general (in general, but not in all specifics).

My grandma took a bath/shower once a week - she grew up when a bath meant bringing water in from outside by hand, heating it on a fire, and then you had to bring it back outside to dump it - I sometimes shower twice a day, and I still use less effort over a week to get clean than my grandma did back in the day.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#183

Post by ClumsyPilot »

emacsen wrote: post #88
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low Tech Magazine always writes like this. They always offer some idea which seems interesting on its surface but leaves gaps. They then end the article explaining away the gap with a moral polemic about how we need to change our ways and return to an older way of life. These days I just take the magazine for what it is; a medium containing interesting ideas but overall disingenuous and often impractical. (Though I d…

> Though I do think that Americans uses clothes dryers _much_ more than they should. There are many reasons for this. Some of them are cultural, and other are legal. Many Americans simply don't remember drying clothes on a clothes hanger outside, and aren't used to hanging them indoors as many Europeans do. And to be fair, indoor clothing hanging is time consuming in comparison to "transfer clothes from one machine t…

"it's often banned in many home owners' associations, and banned in many apartment leases"

That seems extremely inappropariate. Are there no restrictions on what they can ban, like can they ban children or cooking curries?

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#184

Post by ashtonkem »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #149
maxerickson wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern dishwashers encourage you to do nothing more than scrape off any leftover food, there's not "you are supposed to scrub". (essentially, the instructions are to remove the same things from the dishes you would remove if hand washing them in a sink with no disposal...)

These are dishwasher about 20 years ago not modern. Modern dishwashers are so "efficient" that they are not really removing much. Often I am finding dished come back out also dirty after, so now I spend more water and time on a hand wash again.

Something is wrong with your dishwasher or drain system.

I thought the same, and then it turns out that my garbage disposal was broken and obstructing the speedy removal of waste water from my washing machine. Fixed that and now my dishes come out clean.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#185

Post by throwaway0a5e »

pleb_nz wrote: post #97
tootie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frequently much more energy intensive too. Cars are a lot more efficient than horses and dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing.

I read somewhere modern people spend the same amount of time doing chores as someone before electricity. It wouldn't surprise me if it were that far off the truth. We own so much more and are told we need things when in reality maybe we don't?

An hour of labor with modern tech is far more productive than an hour of labor with 1890 tech. The modern person can perform far more work in the same time or the same work in less time. Even if you split the difference the net result when applied to chores is a much cleaner household.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#186

Post by MisterTea »

throw0101a wrote: post #137
Robotbeat wrote: post #28

So, I used to be "team DC" as well, but after learning up a bit, I realized there are still a lot of advantages to AC in the 21st Century. One reason DC power is more viable nowadays is (as others here have mentioned) the use of DC-DC converters. They internally actually use AC to do the conversion (usually at much higher frequency to save weight and cost on inductive elements). But they're not super cheap (not cheap…

> Low voltage DC (like 12V) requires MUCH thicker cables for the same power, which means a lot more copper (and copper mining). Typical line voltage can be very lightweight. -48V DC has been a thing with telco equipment for decades: it's what a landline telephone uses for signalling. * https://www.servertech.com/blog/48vdc-power-and-the-backbone... If we'd use anything DC, it would probably be that.

DC is used where you want direct battery backup, meaning the battery bank voltage is directly supplied to the equipment. This makes the system more reliable as there are no power supplies or inverters to fail. The system can then be composed of simple fuses, breakers, switches and relays to control power flow.

You can even design the system so that the batteries are in parallel with the power supply and load making the system uninterruptible by default.

A lesser known standard is 110V DC used in electrical substations and switchgear. They cover a lot of ground and cable runs can be hundreds of meters so the higher voltage allows longer distances with minimal line loss.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#187

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rini17 wrote: post #128
megous wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be possible to just heat the 1l of water in a kettle and in a pot using gas, and compare the electricity and gas consumed. Time-wise I'd think it's quite comparable, in my experience. This of course depends on sizes and quality of kettle/pot. Wide pot, with large surface area and a quality heatspreader on the bottom will get the water boiling more quickly. Also covering a pot is a must. Sometimes when I'm i…

Have you tried induction stove? It loses almost no heat to outside of pot and that makes palpable difference.

But in this conversations its basically an electric kettle.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#188

Post by bluGill »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #143
function_seven wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get unreasonably angry when Victorian cosplayers think they've found the solution to our wasteful modern life. Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock! Simple , instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market down the block before dinner each night. Was it cloudy yesterday? Simple! , take a whore-bath¹ at…

> instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market Middle class Victorians, in England at least, had things delivered. I imagine that quite a lot of cosplay characters are middle class. In fact food delivered to homes of all types was a normal feature of life in England when I was a child in the 50s and 60s. Milk, eggs, etc., every weekday morning delivered direct…

My grandma didn't have a drivers license. She had to use those trucks to get food, or wait for grandpa to get home to go to the store. Those trucks were a real life saver for her. Today women drivers are not a rare exception.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#189

Post by ClumsyPilot »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #126
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An induction hob with a single ring/burner takes anywhere from 1.3-1.8 kWh of energy. It's almost impossible for the type of person that would benefit from a rocket stove to have access to a solar setup which could generate that much energy. Moreover, most of the time these families/individuals are impoverished enough and/or live in places with bad enough infrastructure that even gas for a gas stove isn't available.…

Run the numbers. 400-500W of solar provides enough energy per day. Two 150ah batteries can handle the peak load.

In these places thats a lot of money, and have much, much higher priority items for such investment

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#190

Post by radus »

hippari wrote: post #151
hutzlibu wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock" My question is, if those people actually tried that by themself before suggesting it, or if they just picture the women doing it somewhere. I mean in this specific instance I can imagine they tried. And I did too, while off grid. It gives you a special connection to your clothes. But suggesting this as a general way of l…

I grew up doing all of those by hands, with the exception of washing machine, I still do all of those chores by hands now. And I'm still only in early 20s, not some old dudes. We debloating our computers all the time, so what's wrong with debloating our houses, and our life ?

Doing more manual chores is the opposite of debloating IMO.
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