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Helvetica Now Variable

monotype.com

181–190 of 197 posts

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#181
post #99

It's still disconcerting to me to see that monotype.com after the Helvetica headline. Monotype and Linotype were fierce rivals since their inception in the late 19th century. The cases where a typeface was offered for both Monotype and Linotype hot metal were rare (Times New Roman and Sabon being the most notable cases). It was only in the post-digital era that we saw consolidation where Agfa (at that time wholly own…

Ah, so I wasn't imagining it. I know little about font history, but I know that Arial is a Monotype thing, and Arial is a metrically-compatible Helvetica look-alike, so it seemed strange that Helvetica would be under the same brand.

I remember talking to a Monotype executive in the wake of the Microsoft deal that gave us Arial, Book Antiqua, etc. He was embarrassed about having done it, but he said that the deal saved the company from failure. Out of the whole set, Century Gothic is the most interesting face. They reproportioned the Twentieth Century typeface (itself a clone of Futura) to match the metrics of Avant Garde and ended up with something that is neither of its predecessors.

I suspect that the Microsoft Typography group also was created around as a result of shame around the MS-Monotype deal, although I don't know for certain and I've lost touch with the people that I used to know from Microsoft Typography.

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#182
post #48
post #39

Do you genuinely notice differences between fonts? I have a general sense of monospaced vs proportional and serif vs sans-serif. Past that it's mostly all the same to me and I'm kind of impressed that people pay so much attention to the tiny details (and maybe questioning whether they really do or whether fonts are kind of like wine tasting).

I don't think "you" as in "the general user base" notices the differences between fonts, but there certainly is some innate sense of fitness to a design. Similar to how people can tell something is cohesive or jankily designed, even if they can't pinpoint what causes the jank. Personally, I can't recognize specific fonts in the wild (especially Helvetica and its infinite lookalikes), but can certainly feel when a sit…

I just released an update to one of my apps that adds a typography library. Like you said font's are a very subtle thing and as I was converting my app I didn't notice that much. But after pushing the update and seeing the two versions (before and after the upgrade) side by side you see that proper typography can help make an app or a website look that much more "professional". The app before didn't look bad, but it had a sheen of "some guy built this in his basement". Now when I look at the app I get a "ok well a cash strapped startup built this"

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#183
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That type designs are not protected is a gross injustice. The time and effort involved in creating a type design is significant. Alas, when the type industry had the resources to lobby to have copyright law changed, they were making a lot of money from stealing each others' designs and chose to lobby the opposite. There was an ill-fated effort in the 90s to lobby for typeface design protection (I was part of it as th…

That art styles are not protected is a gross injustice. The time and effort involved in creating an art style is significant. Alas, when the art industry had the resources to lobby to have copyright law changed… Type designs not being protected by copyright has benefits, too. Afaik, they're still protected by patent. (Not everything has to be copyright law! That's something the “intellectual property” lobby seems to…

A design patent is available, but the bar for a design patent is very high and the income for most type designs is enough to maybe buy a nice dinner for two.¹ Copyright registration is easy and cheap.³

People who argue against type design copyright fall into at least one of three camps: (a) they have no idea what it takes to make a good typeface, (b) their ability to distinguish typefaces doesn't go much farther than distinguishing sans/serif/monospace (if even that), and/or (c) they hope to be able to use other people's designs for their own benefit.

1. Retail sales of typefaces is a ridiculously unprofitable business, which is part of why every nearly independent foundry/type reseller of measurable size is ending up under the umbrella of Monotype Imaging. The handful of designers who have made a living from type design either are employed as staff designers for Adobe/Microsoft/Monotype, do high-value custom designs for publishing clients (although these are becoming increasingly scarce as publishers who still do print are less willing to spend money on quality²) or, the big one but probably gone for good now, embedded fonts in printers (Arthur Baker's deal with HP, he claimed, left him set for life financially).

2. A big part of Font Bureau's early capital came from producing a custom version of Palatino for the gravure pages of Playboy that would match the printed output on the offset pages. There's probably a whole book to be written about the ways in which Hugh Hefner spent Playboy money in ways that nominally benefited the magazine but had a bigger impact in providing cash to artistic endeavors (most notably writers) that wouldn't otherwise see much money.

3. And optional. If registration occurs after an infringement, the copyright holder can only sue for actual damages. Pre-infringement registration also entitles the copyright holder to sue for punitive damages.

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#184
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you (the end user) download and install a font on your machine, or buy an OS with it pre-installed, then you (the end user) are paying the licensing for it. If you (the website operator) link to a font from your CSS file so end users' browsers will download and render text with it, then you (the website operator) are paying the licensing fees.

That is the most insane thing ive heard. Am i to pay extra for every person passing by the billboard ive designed?! Who thought this was ok?! So i could go broke if my website goes viral for the wrong reasons?! Insanity.

Simple solution, just use an open font!

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#185

Can someone explain why pro fonts are so damn expensive? There are a bazillion free fonts which are great for most uses, but for a font like this where it's not as if the font was custom calligraphy (e.g. for a video game or something) and is just a "good normal font", what exactly goes on to make this font and others like it worth the money? I genuinely don't know if there are special features of this font that are…

Brand is definitely a strong driver. The number of styles, and the number of glyphs is also an aspect. Being worth the money is compared not just the font itself, but to what you expect in return. If you're thinking about how popular your mobile OS got, it could make sense to design a distinct font for it.

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#186
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you're a big hit at all of the design meetings! How dare the devs tell the marketing/graphics people what they can and cannot do. Becareful, or they'll shove GA/AMP down at you in response!

- External fonts are blocked by security-conscious users (including every Tor Browser user who remembers to set the browser security level correctly) for a reason: they're a major attack vector - External fonts are often purely cosmetic. Using what over time adds up to several megabytes of data for cosmetics is inconsiderate. - inb4 "just disable remote fonts if you hate them": doing so breaks many websites that use…

to be honest, why have corporate colours or logos either, or use photographs or artwork that causes extra bytes of data to be downloaded for mere cosmetic effect. i think corporate websites should consist of either the english word 'good' or the english word 'bad' based on whether the company is determined to be worthy, say by a committee headed by this dude, with an ASN.1 encoded block of data available for download for any ancilliary information required.

thank you for coming to my TED talk...

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#187
post #186
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- External fonts are blocked by security-conscious users (including every Tor Browser user who remembers to set the browser security level correctly) for a reason: they're a major attack vector - External fonts are often purely cosmetic. Using what over time adds up to several megabytes of data for cosmetics is inconsiderate. - inb4 "just disable remote fonts if you hate them": doing so breaks many websites that use…

to be honest, why have corporate colours or logos either, or use photographs or artwork that causes extra bytes of data to be downloaded for mere cosmetic effect. i think corporate websites should consist of either the english word 'good' or the english word 'bad' based on whether the company is determined to be worthy, say by a committee headed by this dude, with an ASN.1 encoded block of data available for download…

It's like talking to a mathmetician. You just can't.

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#188
post #186
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- External fonts are blocked by security-conscious users (including every Tor Browser user who remembers to set the browser security level correctly) for a reason: they're a major attack vector - External fonts are often purely cosmetic. Using what over time adds up to several megabytes of data for cosmetics is inconsiderate. - inb4 "just disable remote fonts if you hate them": doing so breaks many websites that use…

to be honest, why have corporate colours or logos either, or use photographs or artwork that causes extra bytes of data to be downloaded for mere cosmetic effect. i think corporate websites should consist of either the english word 'good' or the english word 'bad' based on whether the company is determined to be worthy, say by a committee headed by this dude, with an ASN.1 encoded block of data available for download…

There is a big difference between shipping a 192px PNG/WebP image and shipping a custom font. Most of the criticisms I mentioned don't apply to something as small and safe as a logo.

Small PNGs with good alt text are not as unsafe, large, and brittle as third party fonts.

You're not responding to what I said; you're responding to a caricature of what you imagine me to be like. Doing so derails the discussion.

Cosmetics can be used, but they need a strict performance budget. I'd say that 50kb of render-blocking/CLS-inducing cosmetics and 250kb total cosmetics would be quite generous for 90% of corporate websites, though I'd rather see much lower sizes and reserve more space for content. I would not count inline images that convey information as part of an article's content in this budget.

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#189
post #188
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to be honest, why have corporate colours or logos either, or use photographs or artwork that causes extra bytes of data to be downloaded for mere cosmetic effect. i think corporate websites should consist of either the english word 'good' or the english word 'bad' based on whether the company is determined to be worthy, say by a committee headed by this dude, with an ASN.1 encoded block of data available for download…

There is a big difference between shipping a 192px PNG/WebP image and shipping a custom font. Most of the criticisms I mentioned don't apply to something as small and safe as a logo. Small PNGs with good alt text are not as unsafe, large, and brittle as third party fonts. You're not responding to what I said; you're responding to a caricature of what you imagine me to be like. Doing so derails the discussion. Cosmeti…

I'm so glad there are people that are much more creative than you would have the world be, and I'm so glad there is push back on the creatives from just going nuts. However, I never want to live in a world where you're the winning voice in website design. So boring because of some electrons getting annoyed? Good text treatments lend itself to good graphic design. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean the rest of the world should suffer without it. I lived through web1.0, and I'm happy we can finally do things like have different fonts. If we could only get pages to flow just like in Illustrator or InDesign or Quark or whatever, that would be so much better. Instead, we have to live with sticty strict stricts like you fighting to keep things in blocks of boringness.

If you're worried about 3rd party fonts, then force the team to self-host the fonts. If the chosen fonts are not to the end user's liking, they can always override (if they are nerdy enough to know how). Just because lazy devs use 3rd party dosn't mean the baby has to be thrown out with the bath water.

Re: Helvetica Now Variable

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood under what circumstances you would really need a custom font. Could you say more about why that was the case?

Video Games is an example, each AAAA games I worked on had custom fonts (that was used in-game but also for our powerpoints presentation during the making of the game).

Woah, quadruple A games? Did you work at The Initiative?
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