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GNU nano is my editor of choice

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181–190 of 236 posts

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice

#181
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not really gatekeeping or snobbery to say that knowing vim is more useful simply because I can log into any Linux machine on the planet and edit a text file without having to install an editor.

Despite having 7 years of back end experience, I've never learned vim. Is there any other editor that hits these requirement (being able to login to any server to edit text) or does every server engineer need to learn vim? (I mostly use a mix of sublime, intellij, and vscode to edit text)

ed(1)

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice

#182

So I have a question and I'd like to understand if possible. To me programming isn't text editing. Granted, we use text to write most code outside of say Pike but effectively most programming is working with symbols right? Like .subst is meaningless as an operation on a string but .substring(0, 1) is meaningful. So I don't really get the advantage of such, to my mind, rudimentary text editors. At a minimum surely bei…

>>To me programming isn't text editing.

>>I can see that there's not much difference between an ide and editor for new languages but why do people prefer text editing and prioritize typing speed where IDEs exist? Does an editor create a sort of flow or deeper state since lack of tooling requires deeper mental context?

Simple. Programs should themselves be programmed(Generated). Anything that has a structure should be generated, never written. This is the idea behind compilers/assemblers. And if you extend that idea, that's true for some thing like Python too.

Python or any higher level language should not be written, you should tell your editor what you want and it should generate it for you. And I don't just mean it at a syntactical level. Modern programming is really assembling recipes. And you should be able to extend your editor to spout recipes when you command it.

This ideally should be handled by the programming language itself like Lisp Macros. But most languages don't have macros, so ideally the editor must now act like one. Like take a command and expand code in place at compile/code time.

The reason why people use vim/emacs is its easy to extend these editors. Emacs even more so. Emacs is basically a programming environment which uses cursor movements and text as the output of a elisp program, the text buffer itself is attached to a live REPL(IELM). The result is a very rich library to make the cursor and text do all kinds of stuff. You can now tailor emacs to your precise development workflow. There are videos on YouTube on Clojure programmers making Clojure code from Elisp code. Its quite literally feels like magic at that point in time. And needless to there are other great features like 'Keyboard Macros'.

This can be done in vim too, and these days you can use something like fennel and extend vim in Lisp.

Once you start going this lane, you will discover, you've been typing simply too much, and working too hard to navigate around code which you shouldn't have.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice

#183
post #143
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be misremembering, but the biggest differences I remember between vi and vim as a semi-casual user is vi defaults to not supporting arrow keys, and doesn't tell you the mode it's in.

I can't remember the last time I used vi and was unable to use arrow keys. That includes typical Linux installations (Vim, Busybox), Solaris (default is Vim, oddly, but I just confirmed arrow keys work in /usr/xpg4/bin/vi), and various BSDs (nvi). I'm not a power vi user, though. I usually use JOE (thanks/blame to '90s Slackware education), but occasionally vi is more convenient. It wouldn't be nearly as convenient w…

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Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice

#184
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is even more common in the world of containers where “nice to have just for debugging” get omitted. You haven’t lived till you have to edit using only sed.

There is definitely something to be said about having minimalistic container images for security and smaller sizes... But not having a basic text editor that is probably a few hundred KB feels a bit silly, especially given how many environment dependencies usually get packaged into containers anyways. That's like not including any sort of a shell in your container and wondering why people are having troubles with deb…

Of course you add a sane editor after it happens. But that first time…

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice

#185
post #177
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about that “snobbery and gate keeping” is that it’s not at all that. Maybe not everyone’s experience mimics mine but I felt like people looked down at me a bit when I was 16 for using nano on the command line. But, and here’s the kicker, if I hadnt been pushed into vim I would not be nearly as productive now. There have been countless times in my career as a sysadmin/devops/SRE where I’ve been stuck with ho…

> Maybe not everyone’s experience mimics mine but I felt like people looked down at me a bit when I was 16 for using nano on the command line. Just say "nano is Linus Torvald's editor of choice" (which is true and will instantly shut down the debate)

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Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice

#188
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about that “snobbery and gate keeping” is that it’s not at all that. Maybe not everyone’s experience mimics mine but I felt like people looked down at me a bit when I was 16 for using nano on the command line. But, and here’s the kicker, if I hadnt been pushed into vim I would not be nearly as productive now. There have been countless times in my career as a sysadmin/devops/SRE where I’ve been stuck with ho…

When I was coming up, Solaris was as popular as Linux at the time. There was no option to install nano on production machines for Solaris. It was vi or find a new job.

You could install emacs. But no, you’re an infidel!

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice

#189
post #177
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about that “snobbery and gate keeping” is that it’s not at all that. Maybe not everyone’s experience mimics mine but I felt like people looked down at me a bit when I was 16 for using nano on the command line. But, and here’s the kicker, if I hadnt been pushed into vim I would not be nearly as productive now. There have been countless times in my career as a sysadmin/devops/SRE where I’ve been stuck with ho…

> Maybe not everyone’s experience mimics mine but I felt like people looked down at me a bit when I was 16 for using nano on the command line. Just say "nano is Linus Torvald's editor of choice" (which is true and will instantly shut down the debate)

He said he might switch to nano. It's not currently his editor of choice (unless there's something more recent). If I recall correctly he has been using uEmacs/PK (https://github.com/torvalds/uemacs).

> I really need to switch over to something that is actually maintained and does utf-8 properly. Probably 'nano'.

https://www.tag1consulting.com/blog/interview-linus-torvalds...

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alas, nano (and pico before it) have a certain stigma among more "experienced" Unix users that more or less boils down to gatekeeping and snobbery. You know, after a number of years in the industry, I've largely stopped caring about what others think and wouldn't lose my sleep over it - the best tools are the ones that you're familiar with and that solve your problems. For me, that's using nano, for someone else th…

Well, I'd put some limits on this. If a coworker cobbled together something that still let them program by punch card then I'd 1) probably be frustrated with their level of output and 2) impressed at the setup. 3) asking for their extra set of eyes on my own code because if they had the patience for punch cards they would probably be better than me at catching errors.

I would probably be wondering where the machine is kept that reads punch cards. And how to use it. And how do I make punch cards. Then, after all that, your list seems like it would suffice.
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