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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

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Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#181

Post by varjag »

esquivalience wrote: post #177
amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Another reading of this is: "freedom of speech is protected in this country". And that is true, not the fairytale you suggest it to be.

Freedom of speech is protected only so much as the protection is enforced. It is not some sort of fundamental law. With weak-kneed politicians and indifferent population it inevitably erodes.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#182

Post by coliveira »

unishark wrote: post #94
jacksonkmarley wrote: post #79

Well, buried in the middle of this article is an important point: > In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen. So he was a Swiss person doing a PhD at a Chinese university. His relationship with the professor at the Swiss university was an unofficial one, so the word 'dismissal' here is pretty misleading. No information about what hap…

There's information on his Swiss PhD program in the article. The Swiss University advised him to de-register so he could maintain years of eligibility or whatever, and the Swiss advisor continued to supervise him obviously. The University had told him that re-registering upon his return would be "no problem" with the support of the advisor. So he kind of got caught in a transitional stage where he has no options if a…

> the complaints came "from China"

And that's the whole point of this piece of misinformation. "Came from China" doesn't mean that the country of China was involved, but that people in China involved didn't want this or that. It could similarly be a problem with news that "came from Switzerland", or that "came from USA", but of course the media wants to play the game of China (the country) as a bad actor.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#183

Post by rob_c »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Here, here.

You sir have earned 1xvirtual-pint.

Very well said.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#184

Post by yosamino »

jacksonkmarley wrote: post #79

Well, buried in the middle of this article is an important point: > In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen. So he was a Swiss person doing a PhD at a Chinese university. His relationship with the professor at the Swiss university was an unofficial one, so the word 'dismissal' here is pretty misleading. No information about what hap…

Almost. Since the "Neue Züricher Zeitung" changed to their current editor-in-chief in - I wanna say 2015 - they have moved to towards a more politically right-wing, conservative position.

From how this position is expressed in germany-austria-switzerland, "china=bad, universities too liberal, someone think of my country!" is not an uncommon sentiment.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#185

Post by esquivalience »

varjag wrote: post #181
esquivalience wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reading of this is: "freedom of speech is protected in this country". And that is true, not the fairytale you suggest it to be.

Freedom of speech is protected only so much as the protection is enforced. It is not some sort of fundamental law. With weak-kneed politicians and indifferent population it inevitably erodes.

It actually is. It's a fundamental human right under the European Convention on Human Rights (to which Switzerland is a party) , Art. 10:

"ARTICLE 10 Freedom of expression 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises. 2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary."

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#186

Post by dash2 »

beaunative wrote: post #163
dash2 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there is any evidence that any PhD student has ever found it hard to get a US visa because of criticizing the US or US policy?

There are plenty Chinese students unable to renew their visa to the US for 'national security' reasons.

Right, but is there is any evidence that any PhD student has ever found it hard to get a US visa because of criticizing the US or US policy?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#187

Post by lmz »

dash2 wrote: post #147
curiousgal wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, if I were a professor and my PhD student was overly critical of the US online, I too would distance myself. Visa applications are hard enough as they are.

Is there is any evidence that any PhD student has ever found it hard to get a US visa because of criticizing the US or US policy?

Wouldn't asking for all your social media identities as part of the visa application create somewhat of a chilling effect?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#188

Post by another_story »

yann2 wrote: post #73
casualracism wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said in another comment, in the U.S., if you’re an African American studies PhD student and you post a racist cartoon depicting black stereotypes, it’s not hard to imagine losing your doctorate candidacy.

What happens if I study cockroaches? Chinese cockroaches to be specific. Am I allowed to post cartoons about them? What about bears?

I would assume in the first case, like the previous example, you would lose the Ph.D. But the second example with bears (assuming Pooh) is not a fair comparison to hate speech.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#189

Post by varjag »

esquivalience wrote: post #185
varjag wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech is protected only so much as the protection is enforced. It is not some sort of fundamental law. With weak-kneed politicians and indifferent population it inevitably erodes.

It actually is. It's a fundamental human right under the European Convention on Human Rights (to which Switzerland is a party) , Art. 10: "ARTICLE 10 Freedom of expression 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not preve…

I am quite aware of declaration of human rights.

It is not a fundamental law in scientific sense, i.e. it is not a natural property of any kind. You want freedom of speech, fine, but you have to fight to get it and keep it alive. Otherwise it becomes just another unenforceable legalistic quirk like beheading for insulting the Queen is today.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#190

Post by queuebert »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #176
queuebert wrote: post #173

As a faculty member and PhD advisor, let me offer my reading between the lines. The student and advisor did not get along already. The student went to China and found a girlfriend. The lockdown separated them. Hormones flared, exacerbating what was probably already a tense situation. The student was increasingly a problem (note the screaming at the advisor mentioned in TFA). The advisor decided that it was no longer…

Well I got my PhD, so let me read between your lines ([1]). Faculty have little fiefdoms and they expect students to live on salaries bellow minimum wage. If the advisor is sub-par (i.e. the university made a mistake hiring them) it's incredibly difficult to change advisors without poisoning the relationship with other faculty members. Dealing with sub-par professors sucks. Some are not too bright. Others sexually ha…

You're entirely correct. Academia is broken is so many ways. A lot of my colleagues are wastes of space and some are indeed harmful. I don't think I'm a great advisor either. No one teaches us how to advise students.

My take is based entirely on facts of the article interpreted through an advisor's lens rather than that of a journalist trying to get clicks.

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