I'm a CS associate professor. I teach a course which consists in contributing to a free software, in third year at my uni. A few years ago a couple of students decided to make a contribution to GNU ls. The change was to have the output color independent of capitalisation (it is based on filename extension). Their code was accepted. It was a tiny tiny contribution, but it's probable that these few lines of code are an…
That's great to see this course -- there aren't enough good courses materials on how to contribute to free software, and it can be quite intimidating the first time. Yet, it can definitely be one of the most rewarding development work... With others from a few large free software projects & communities (Open edX, OpenStack, Framasoft, Mines-Telecom...), we are in the initial stages of producing an online course / MOO…
My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
181–190 of 195 posts
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#182I work in finance. About 5 years ago I started building a FIX library on my spare time, out of curiosity. Over the years it has been countless fin tech start-ups as well as big companies reaching out to me about the library, suggesting fixes and features. Since then I have long lost the interest in the technology which enables connectivity to financial exchanges to automate trades, but I keep working on the library f…
I've been a user of your project and it's fantastic. I think you're being too hard on yourself. The proliferation of marketplaces and assets to trade (and all type of projects, automated trading, market making, etc... that your project enabled) can been seen as a net positive, as a win win for all parties involved and more. From a microeconomic perspective, your library enabled access to startup using js and with rel…
That said, if you write cool software that is cool. It doesn't need to have a huge social impact as long as you enjoy creating it, which appears to be the case here :)
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen more engineers completely disinterested in anything customer related (and even calling users stupid!) more than I've seen PMs isolating devs. Every time I ask a PM if I could interact with a customer (not asking for permission, but to hook me up) they were delighted. Every single time. Another way to solve this problem is to have engineers on customer support rotation of some sort. This way, engineers get t…
I agree about PM/dev/customer part but disagree on dev/support rotation. This sounds great in theory, in practice working on any non-trivial software means there are parts you know little-nothing about. Having spent time on support duty I'd end up pinging team members for help (disturbing people without having a sense of priority since I don't do support), budding into other people's stuff without the capacity or des…
I've worked (as a dev) in a customer-facing industry where devs are generally divorced from customers. Working in support has helped me understand the codebase better (because yes, you usually don't know it all that well if you just fix bugs and build features) and helped me to (at the time) connect with the value some people get out of it. That was nice.
What was less nice is dealing with the angry minority of customers. That was I would say significantly more unpleasant than dealing with the happy minority was pleasant. For that reason I would not recommend interfacing with customers for anyone. There is a reason support agents have such a high turnover.
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
The financial instruments (and the underlying rules of the economic system) are the enablers here. You're probably right that it's probably better than what came before, but that doesn't mean we can improve on the system we have.
Of course we can improve it - by identifying where people’s behaviors and systemic effects are causing undesirable behaviors. That probably doesn’t happen if we blame ‘finance’ for it though? Every system has exploitable loopholes and will become unbalanced once enough people start gaming it. Some of them (especially new ones) are easier than others. It’s easy to say ‘this is terrible’, but that can easily turn into…
Just so you guys don't get into violent agreement.
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anything man-made, as should be obvious. Example: It isn't democracy doing that, just people. It isn't autocracy doing that, just people. It isn't socialism doing that, it's people. It isn't capitalism doing that, it's people. Therefore democracy = dictatorship, and socialism = capitalism. It's all the same, it's all people in the end, so it's no matter. Patently absurd.
If you replace ‘finance’ with another system, I guarantee you’ll end up with another disaster soon enough. The only way you get halfway decent stability in any human run system is to build in expectations of human corruption and add in methods for self interested (aka greedy) people to get payoffs by tackling said corruption. The problem is that people are involved, and you’re not realizing what that means - people i…
>The only way you get stability in any human run system is to build in expectations of human corruption and add in methods for self interested people to get payoffs.
So which is it? Systems don't matter, or we need to build better systems? x) It seems these two sentences directly contradict each other.
>you’re not realizing what that means - people inherently are corrupt, self interested, short sighted, power hungry, etc.
I'm pretty sure I've noticed this before, actually. Why the condescension? Precisely what I'm defending is that we need systems where the greedy and the powerful cannot run steamrollers over the weak.
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#186As a dev at a large company, I'm wondering how the author went about open sourcing the side project. My employment contract stipulates that anything I write for work is owned by the company. This company wouldn't have any motivation to let me open source the work I do, which in my case does not go into any product. The reason I ask is that I have written, as part of my day job, a scientific library in C# that doesn't…
> My employment contract stipulates that anything I write for work is owned by the company. Did you agree on the price of that extra work? If not, I recommend to set price prohibitively high, e.g. $100 per line of code or $1000 per hour of work. If your company really want to own your side project, then they will need to pay the requested price.
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Which ones exactly and how did they pull off this apparent massive conspiracy? Most of those details are in the findings of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission [1]: "More than 30 years of deregulation and reliance on self-regulation by financial institutions, championed by former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan and others, supported by successive administrations and Congresses, and actively pushed by th…
Your documentation literally backs it up as a wide scale failure of an industry resulting from many contributing factors slowly building up over time, not an explicit conspiracy, or caused by concrete players who had all the cards and knew the whole situation or had any historic examples that could show where what they were doing would go. You can certainly go on about all the folks who didn't stand up and say 'Stop!…
> You can certainly go on about all the folks who didn't stand up and say 'Stop!' - but really, we've got a bunch of those brewing in tech, and no one listens to anyone saying stop there either. There are a million apocalypses predicted every day - and it's rare if any of them ever ACTUALLY happen.
They built models on the basis that house prices do not go down, counter to lessons I learned in a 9th grade economics class about boom and bust cycles. They lobbied to remove regulations designed to reduce risk and over leveraging, and the risk increased and they became over leveraged. They continued to repackage bad loans from predatory lenders as AAA investments well after they understood the consequences. That's why the major firms offloaded those financial instruments to anyone they could find, even if it meant wiping out the life savings of millions of people by saddling pension funds with negative equity. It was not an apocalypse. It was history repeating itself.
> In retrospect, you can find those doing it in Finance back then, but they couldn't stop this mess anymore than anyone else - and plenty of people easily papered over the possibility of the crash, the same as we paper over a million other issues in tech.
It looks like we agree that they are incapable of regulating themselves. If they aren't competent enough to understand the regulations they dismantled, or to take boom and bust cycles into account for financial planning, what is their purpose? If they can't mitigate risk or provide liquidity in a crisis, what function do they serve in the economy?
> So you can blame 'finance', same as someone could blame 'tech' for the election. But it doesn't really mean anything and it won't change anything, because it doesn't provide any useful information or potential corrective action.
Nations like Canada did not remove the regulations, and did not have a similar liquidity crisis, although they did suffer economically because the US financial system crash was so severe. There was a wealth of information on the effectiveness of regulation and firewalls between banking institutions, and many economists predicted another financial crisis before Glass-Steagall was effectively repealed after decades of lobbying from the financial industry. Canada was able to apply this useful information and take corrective action which kept them out of the crisis.
Similarly, there was plenty of literature on why placing social media outside the regulatory environment for all other media was dangerous well before the election and QAnon. The tech industry could do something similar, but you and I both know they are lobbying to keep regulations out. They are purposefully avoiding corrective action, despite the severity of the consequences, because it means they may make less money and have more competition. They want all the profit from their monopolies, but they don't want to spend any money to moderate it or comply with regulations. It's nothing but greed and hubris, and it is just as contemptible as the same motivations in the financial industry.
The solution is not mysterious or unknown, it's effective regulation. Your hypothesis is that no one in the tech or financial industries are capable of understanding the effect of their actions, or accepting accountability for them. I believe they do understand the effects of billions of dollars in lobbying activity, and know that if their scheme fails, they can avoid accountability, keep their profits, and still get bailed out. In either case, the "potential corrective action" is the same: effective regulation.
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's great to see this course -- there aren't enough good courses materials on how to contribute to free software, and it can be quite intimidating the first time. Yet, it can definitely be one of the most rewarding development work... With others from a few large free software projects & communities (Open edX, OpenStack, Framasoft, Mines-Telecom...), we are in the initial stages of producing an online course / MOO…
Yes I know about this project. It was launched by Marc (from Mines-Telecom) who is a friend of mine and took the idea from my course (I originally asked him to teach it with me as he is quite involved in open source through the Inkscape project). I'm really glad he went through with it!
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your documentation literally backs it up as a wide scale failure of an industry resulting from many contributing factors slowly building up over time, not an explicit conspiracy, or caused by concrete players who had all the cards and knew the whole situation or had any historic examples that could show where what they were doing would go. You can certainly go on about all the folks who didn't stand up and say 'Stop!…
> Your documentation literally backs it up as a wide scale failure of an industry resulting from many contributing factors slowly building up over time, not an explicit conspiracy, or caused by concrete players who had all the cards and knew the whole situation or had any historic examples that could show where what they were doing would go. > You can certainly go on about all the folks who didn't stand up and say 'S…
You’re 8th grade economics class also probably didn’t cover some very real scenarios where prices don’t and can’t go down - hyperinflation.
It’s easy to say Effective Regulation, it’s harder to do it - especially when everyone is getting rich (including the average homeowner who sees the value of their home skyrocket). I lived through ‘08. I was in the market to buy due to life changes in ‘05 and it was already out of control. Of the literally hundreds of co-workers, investors, other buyers, etc I interacted with, only one other one actually didn’t get involved and avoided problems. Of the dozen friends who I’m close with, a quarter of them got in over their heads buying during this time (others sold, or wanted to buy but were priced out). I ended up buying in early ‘10 for literally half the price. Keeping a steady hand through the run up of prices literally had me crying myself to sleep a few times. It isn’t realistic to expect all but a tiny portion of people to see what is really going on in such a mass psychosis event.
And Canada has been having a similar crisis for a decade+, it just hasn’t blown up yet - see the Vancouver, Toronto, etc. housing markets. These are impending financial crises in the making - or not. They may not have had bank crises in ‘08, but a lot of investors still lost a ton of Money.
And you keep insisting on everyone getting rich off bailouts - when what really kicked off the collapse was when firms were allowed to implode to set an example, everyone lost massive amounts of money on their investments, banks were nationalized, and an entire industry (mortgage origination) went through a nuclear winter. The gov’t bailouts (that in many cases were forced on solvent firms so the few that were in trouble didn’t get pushed into bank runs) got paid back, with interest. Someone made money, but someone always makes money. On a whole, they lost way more, and if everyone knew it was going to play out this way, very few would have kept doing it.
That not every single financial firm went bankrupt is indeed a thing. That we didn’t enter a Great Depression spiral because of it is also probably a good thing for everyone. Unless you’re saying you are a ‘debt is evil’ person, in which case be aware the hangover from implementing THAT in the modern economy would make the Great Depression look like a blip.
Re: My tiny side project has had more impact than my decade in the software industry
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course we can improve it - by identifying where people’s behaviors and systemic effects are causing undesirable behaviors. That probably doesn’t happen if we blame ‘finance’ for it though? Every system has exploitable loopholes and will become unbalanced once enough people start gaming it. Some of them (especially new ones) are easier than others. It’s easy to say ‘this is terrible’, but that can easily turn into…
Judging from how utterly close that was to a well-worn idiom, I'm guessing what the GP meant to write was "that doesn't mean we can't improve..." Just so you guys don't get into violent agreement.