WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance • Hacker News Board

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#181

Post by starfallg » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

Kaze404 wrote: post #178

starfallg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My experience of people in China-- admittedly a long time ago-- was they are generally very patriotic or nationalistic, like Americans. They appreciate the CCP and what it has accomplished. They have a strong domestic arts industry making movies, books, games. Sure lots of people disagree with the party, but that doesn't that they want a western liberal democracy. Having been on the inside, it's not that they don't…

I don't understand the premise that the Chinese need to be convinced that the system we live in is the better one. Can we not accept that they are happy with the choices they made, and that not everyone needs to live under a repressive capitalist system?

>repressive capitalist system

Are you implying that the current Chinese system is not repressive, nor capitalist?

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#182

Post by dirtyid » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

starfallg wrote: post #179

dirtyid wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singaporean political academies trained 50K CCP cadres until recently. Their system is/was highly well regarded and emulated, but within the last decade CCP has evolved/developed beyond the Singaporean methods designed for small fish geopolitics. LKI was the preeminant statesmen that every CCP leader visited/consulted with personally, outside of state-to-state dialogue. I think Trumps America, drama HK in has turned…

The political element is hugely overblown as the training is mostly limited to mid-level cadres and in the areas of Managerial Economics and Public Administration. There's a reason why they are called the "Mayors' Class". It's also a top down policy, not the popular view.

I misread the original subject is on politics vs bureaucracy, in which case I agree.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#183

Post by Kaze404 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

starfallg wrote: post #181

Kaze404 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the premise that the Chinese need to be convinced that the system we live in is the better one. Can we not accept that they are happy with the choices they made, and that not everyone needs to live under a repressive capitalist system?

>repressive capitalist system Are you implying that the current Chinese system is not repressive, nor capitalist?

No

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#184

Post by sudosysgen » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

logotype wrote: post #177

dirtyid wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wrote elsewhere in this thread that this alleged "Chinese propaganda offensive" especially on western social media is massively overblown. In terms of data, we have decades of western analysis of polling and sentiments in PRC suggesting people are genuinely supportive of central government, reflected in opinions of millions of Chinese diasphora populations who post on western media and/or interact regularly with…

Warning: account associated with CCP

You've already been told by site admins to stop with this. If you have evidence someone is a shill for anything contact dang, otherwise it hurts everyone when you do this.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#185

Post by sudosysgen » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #122

sudosysgen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is without any bloodshed and without any bloodshed. The Soviet Union fell down with very little bloodshed, but around 7 million people died from the economic disruption, and the democracy that came from it was rapidly compromised both by local oligarchs and foreign powers in most of it. I don't think the Chinese would want a fall of the USSR scenario, however little the bloodshed is. Economic disruption can kil…

> There is without any bloodshed and without any bloodshed. The Soviet Union fell down with very little bloodshed, but around 7 million people died from the economic disruption, and the democracy that came from it was rapidly compromised both by local oligarchs and foreign powers in most of it. But you're comparing apples and oranges. Russia was still a command economy when the Soviet Union disintegrated, and went st…

China has never made a transition to capitalism. Roughly half of the workforce is employed by the State, it's at best state capitalism.

A transition to hard capitalism and a collapse of the government would absolutely bring economic disruption. And China right now is much less self sufficient than Russia was in 1991, and gets its foreign exchange from complex and vulnerable supply chains.

China is also much less educated than Russia was at the time, and would be even more vulnerable to corruption.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#186

Post by tpm » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 7:18 AM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #180

tpm wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not mention social media, but I know things about Chinese influence in e.g. academia. It's not overblown at all; we are not talking nearly enough about it. See, I already mentioned polling in totalitarian society does not make sense - it's quite simple really - and you are still using it as an argument. That's not a good way to have a discussion.

>polling in totalitarian society does not make sense Why? There's tons rigorous analysis by western institutions with decades history polling in PRC [1]. The allegations that you can't get useful polling because communism is facile. There's no basis to it other than projection and feels. It's common among East Europeans who abscribe their experiences on PRCs, which is very different. Unlike Soviet Block countries dur…

> There's no basis to it other than projection and feels.

The basis is that the authorities can lock you up if you dissent. You have no right to free expression and no chance for a fair trial. You know this and will deny it happens.

I am not saying that for example HK polls are biased pre-NSL (they are because smart people knew what is coming 2047 or sooner), I am fully aware that half the people will support any government, no matter how bad. That also happened in Eastern Europe, so China is not as unique as you seem to think. It simply does not matter. Once dissent is not allowed - or you know you might be prosecuted for dissent in the future, or your family in China might be in danger - you will start self-censoring.

> Where is the massive propaganda campaign?

all over the world. See for example the Confucius Institute network associated with various universities, its overt task is to teach language and culture, but covertly to manipulate and to pressure lecturers and students and basically anyone around to toe the party line (happened to a friend very recently). Many similar stories all over academia, pressuring companies etc.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#187

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

xxpor wrote: post #115

matheusmoreira wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. Regulators shouldn't care about stock prices at all. They should always do the right thing and let the market crash if necessary.

That's absurd that they shouldn't pay ANY attention. You can go too far in both directions. The stock price is an indirect indicator of the material impact of the regulation.

Regulators should pay absolutely zero attention to stock market. If the stock price crashes, it's because the company's value was derived from the exploitation and abuse that regulations are supposed to prevent. They were never supposed to be that valuable in the first place.

Regulations should cause as much damage to stock price as possible. We should measure the effectiveness of regulations by how much they tank the stock of affected companies. Real change often affects the profits of corporations. If nothing happens, then I doubt the new rules are actually gonna change anything for the better.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#188

Post by xxpor » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #187

xxpor wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd that they shouldn't pay ANY attention. You can go too far in both directions. The stock price is an indirect indicator of the material impact of the regulation.

Regulators should pay absolutely zero attention to stock market. If the stock price crashes, it's because the company's value was derived from the exploitation and abuse that regulations are supposed to prevent. They were never supposed to be that valuable in the first place. Regulations should cause as much damage to stock price as possible. We should measure the effectiveness of regulations by how much they tank th…

I think you're saying the purpose of regulations should be to hurt the stock price of companies. That's seriously crazy. Why not write a regulation simply outlawing public stock markets?

The purpose of regulations are to make people's lives better. That could mean protecting them from harms, or preventing other undesirable outcomes. There should be a cost benefit analysis applied there. Of course some things are hard to measure so there will be arguing on the margins.

The place I do agree with you is that if a company's business is doing regulation compliance (see: Intuit), then their viability shouldn't be a factor at all.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#189

Post by tablespoon » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #185

tablespoon wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is without any bloodshed and without any bloodshed. The Soviet Union fell down with very little bloodshed, but around 7 million people died from the economic disruption, and the democracy that came from it was rapidly compromised both by local oligarchs and foreign powers in most of it. But you're comparing apples and oranges. Russia was still a command economy when the Soviet Union disintegrated, and went st…

China has never made a transition to capitalism. Roughly half of the workforce is employed by the State, it's at best state capitalism. A transition to hard capitalism and a collapse of the government would absolutely bring economic disruption. And China right now is much less self sufficient than Russia was in 1991, and gets its foreign exchange from complex and vulnerable supply chains. China is also much less educ…

> A transition to hard capitalism and a collapse of the government would absolutely bring economic disruption.

I mean, one of the takeaways from the experience of Russia is to not repeat the same mistakes. If China makes a transition to liberal democracy, it should continue to protect its state sector for a long time, and draw out any reform of it to minimize economic disruption.

It absolutely should not let a bunch of crazed free marketers come in and "creatively" fuck everything up with a blind application of their ideology.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#190

Post by nerbert » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

onethought wrote: post #166

nerbert wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it scale? Membership (2021) 95,148,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Party Seems to scale pretty well.

They are communist party members. Not Board members of businesses... That number includes anyone from a high school kids to Taxi Drivers. Are you suggesting that High school kids and taxi drivers would be effective board members?

I am not suggesting but saying that the CCP has a pool of members to tap into and is able to force companies to make them members of their board. Junior members will grow older, can be board member of small companies in the countryside in the beginning, then evolve as they grow. Older members can be board members of 10+ Big companies.